gwilson87 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Ok lets hope this can make sense. Did the clutch less than 2k ago and just barely did the knock sensor (doesn't pertain, just happy that I finally replaced it after a year of having a CEL). Anywho, in the past two days I have started to get a clanging type of rattle sound. I once had the same sound but it went away when I replaced the clutch. It usually happened when I am in gear driving and let off the gas some to slow down, and when I would push the clutch in, it would go away. Now it happens sometimes even with the clutch depressed, and it will slow down as I come to a stop. Keep in mind this is not constant occurrence just sporadic. I checked adn the clips holding the release bearing are still on, the flywheel fins look a tad worn (color wise) on the edge where they contact the bearing. Now my questions, What could possibly be causing this issue? And how to fix it? I am planning on pulling the motor, again, tomorrow and would LOVE if someone has had this problem and knew a fix that didn't involve getting a new clutch. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Wow slow down here a bit. If you just go tearing things apart we can't help you and it may just come back again. Have you checked the heat sheilds, exhaust system and transmission mounts? Can we have a better description of the noise? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Its not heat shields, the mounts all look good, and exhaust is sturdy. The only way to describe the sound is like whenever I let off the gas a bit in gear, it sounds like something is bouncing around almost in between the pressure plate and flywheel. its more of a sharp higher pitch pinging. And its only when moving. I tightened up the clutch cable and I'm going to drive it around tomorrow and try to get some audio of the sound. My preference is definitely to not pull the engine (as fun as that is). Hopefully that helps, if not then I will try for video in the morning and just hope the car gnomes show up and fix the car while I sleep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Do you have the spring pulling the clutch fork forward-released position? Tightening the clutch cable will put the TOB against the pressure plate which is not a good thing. You should have about a 1/4" of free play in the fork travel before the TOB and the pressure plate make contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Yes the spring is there. and the cable isnt so tight that its always touching, i will check the freeplay in the morning. But I think its pretty close to 1/2". Thanks for the replies. The more info I can get the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 ok here is a link to the youtube movie. The rattle is most apparent at the annotated parts. Today its making it when the clutch is pushed in mostly, and when slowing down. Maybe brakes are screwed up? I dunno... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 ewwwww i heard it but i think i am being attacked by flying pigs so i can't really think right now. i heard two noises. Does it do that with the clutch depressed, as you slow down. What happens if you pop the car in neutral? WHat happens if you slow down with the car in gear and at the very last second depress the clutch? Is it affecting the driveablility of the car. DO you feel any matching vibration in the clutch pedal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Kinda sounds like a blown out catalytic converter maybe? My speakers kinda suck so it's hard to say. Except it sounds like it changes with wheel speed. I'd be interested to know if it occurs when out of gear (transmission in neutral clutch released) while the car is coasting, and if it does it with the engine off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Ok so it isn't doing it tonight as I drove down to visit some friends. It did a sorta clang if while driving, I let off the gas a bit, and then push it back in it would clang as the engine put its power on the wheels again. Fairtax, it was doing it most when I was in gear coasting to a stop, then when I pushed the pedal in, it carried on for a second before stopping. Once or twice, it would do it even with the clutch pedal in and coasting to a stop. And so far, in gear or not hasn't changed the noise at all, haven't tried it with the car off. Nipper, I don;t feel any vibrations in the clutch pedal actually which was kind of odd I thought for the type of noise. Also slowing down with the car in gear used to make the noise and it would leave once i pressed in the clutch. On my last clutch it was making this noise pretty regularly and only when i was moving in gear without putting on the gas. But the new clutch got rid of it. It is not effecting driveability other than being bothersome and making me think something is about to snap. But as I said, for some reason it isn't making the noise as much since this afternoons trip to the junkyard... maybe it healed itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Well I'd say it is clutch related for sure based on what you've described. That the sound slowly goes away when the clutch pedal is depressed makes me think that it's maybe something dragging on the hub of the clutch disc. Maybe one of the anti chatter springs is broken and bouncing around or something I dunno. I hate to say it but I think the engine or trans will need to be pulled so you can have a closer look at what's in there. There's also the possibility that it's something in the transmission. But I don't think anything in there would make that kind of noise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Yeah I think if it was within the transmission, it would have to be pretty bad to make that noise heard on the outside of the trans. Also I think it would be a more consistant thing. Maybe I will pull the engine this weekend and just replace the clutch, gotta love autozone warranties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Well I'd say it is clutch related for sure based on what you've described. That the sound slowly goes away when the clutch pedal is depressed makes me think that it's maybe something dragging on the hub of the clutch disc. Maybe one of the anti chatter springs is broken and bouncing around or something I dunno. I hate to say it but I think the engine or trans will need to be pulled so you can have a closer look at what's in there. There's also the possibility that it's something in the transmission. But I don't think anything in there would make that kind of noise... Im begining to think its a broken clutch finger or an antichatter spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Clutch fingers are fine, I checked those first. I guess I will pull the engine saturday and see whats up. I will provide info as it shows up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 This has been bugging me all day. That's what happens when its slow at work. I always end up brainstorming. The only problem with the clutch theory is that the noise sounds like it goes away when the car stops moving. It sounds like the clutch the way you described it, but what I hear in the video doesn't seem to go along with that. In the video it's hard to tell if it's making the noise when the car is driving because of engine noise. But it becomes much more audible about the time the turn signal is turned on. Obviously you're slowing down at that point to make a turn, and the sound stops seemingly at about the same time the car stops. Does that sound about right? Has it ever made the noise when the car was sitting still? If you put the car in gear and just idle along at a low speed will it make the sound? What about if you stop and cut off the engine on a hill and let the car roll slowly down the hill with the transmission in neutral? I would try to get the car either up on a lift or on 4 jack stands so all the wheels are off the ground, and have a friend "drive" the car while you listen around and try to track down the general area of the noise. I think there's still a change it might be clutch related. I think you should try to cover every other possibility before pulling the engine and replacing the clutch again. I hate to do a lot of work and spend a bunch of money and then still have the same problem when it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Well I don't have any friends. Well at least any that are available. Here is the latest. Whilst driving around for work today the car was doing pretty fine. Slight rattle but nothing really noticeable. However, after a quick stop, it started to slip really bad in first and second gear. Kind of odd, basically anything under 20 miles per hour once the clutch was fully engaged. REALLY sucked coming home in rush hour freeway stop and go. The slip wasn't so much of a slip as a chatter/ shake my entire car REALLY bad. The engine is pulled and the clutch is off and seems fine (it only took an hour and I can go into autozone and get a new one under warranty no questions) But I kind of want to see if I can just get money back and go buy something better than autozone cheap-o. Any suggestions now? btw, the clutch disc seems slightly glazed at the edge but nothing too much. The flywheel is still in good condition it seems, just had it resurfaced with the last change. I kind of wonder if maybe the pressure plate isn't strong enough with it being the cheap autozone one. Bleh, I just need to buy a new car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 There are some parts you dont cheap out on, clutchs are one of them. Get an exidy clutch. Also get new clips for the throw out bearing and inspect the pilot bearing, I would just replace it to just rule it out. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Just got back from Autozone, my buddy was working so I got my money back easily enough. Now to find who sells exedy locally. I really don't have the time to wait for one to come in the mail. Actually I might.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 FML New Exedy clutch, same exact symptoms. Now I have a cold, and am going to eat some soup and pretend I didn't just waste two days in the garage catching the cold... Axle, hub, wheel bearings? It shakes too much to feel confident in sitting it on jack stands and "driving". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 GLazed or warped flywheel? I think I am at my limit with what I can diagnose over the net without it in my driveway. And that "cold" is going around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I've had that "cold" for like a month. It just keeps lingering around. :-\ Did you happen to check if there was any play in the transmission input shaft while you had the engine out? Did you check the movement of the throwout arm and bearing to be sure it's returning all the way? When it shakes is it just when rolling? Jack up the car, put it in first or second gear and just let it idle. The wheels will be moving, but not fast. Then you can hunt around for the noise yourself Is this car FWD or AWD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Input shaft was fine, new throwout bearing, fancy new subaru TB clips (last two the local dealership had) and greased fork. The fork was greased as well where it meets the TB. It shakes REALLY bad in first and second at start. I know it sounds like I just suck at driving a manual, but its after It is fully in gear, and I am moving. Shakes around 10mph, and then shift to second is fine, I can move forward and then from 15-19mph it does that crazy shaking as well. The car is awd, and I am starting to scare myself into thinking the transmission is screwed up. Maybe I will have time monday to do some more hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Im wondering if you have a bad flywheel more then anything else (warped hard spots etc). This sounds like classic clutch shudder. Also check to make sure ALL seals are bone dry and surfaces are clean. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Flywheel was just barely machined and still looks really good. Feels like chatter, sounds like chatter, but its only at the beginning of driving. I will have to hit some hills and see what it does. One my previous clutch, it slipped a lot when accelerating up hills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik litchy Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 so the pilot bearing was good? you did not mention it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwilson87 Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Yeah pilot bearing was replaced the same time i resurfaced the flywheel. It was still feeling good when we pulled the engine to change the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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