Rick James Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 When removing the old disty cap, one of the scews broke. Got the cap off and drilled it out.I buy a new cap and install, the new screw seemed as if it had re-threaded the hole and would hold. It didn't..once the engine was cranked the cap was kncoked loose and I discovered the rotor had shattered. I buy new rotor and install. I solved the disty problem by running a machine screw through with a nut. This held tight. Now I have a tight disty and tight rotor but no power and the timing? seems to be way off. What happened? Why is there a number 1 on the top of the disty cap? The new cap had a number one on it and I oriented it the same way the original cap was but the new cap has a different location of "vent" holes, not matching the original cap. I didn't mix the plug cables up. I'm sure the distributor shaft spun a few times after the rotor shattered but there isn't any option on direction or location of rotor due to the set screw screw so why isn't this a no brainer? Won't putting a new one back on with the set screw mean that it'll just pick up where it left off and it will be where it needs to be? I need to get back on the road tomorrow. Any ghetto timing adjustments like just turning the distributor until it sounds right...or am I off base on everything? Many thanks in advance RJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 did you pull the distributor out of the housing at all? like up and then back down? if so you're distributor is installed. an ignition wire, rotor, or cap is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 thanks the only thing I tugged up on slightly was the original rotor just to see how it was secured. It was tight and the shaft didn't come up much if any. This same rotor then shattered on the inside the new disty cap once engine was cranked. I assumed it's because the hold down screw on the cap was stripped but I since solved the hold down issue. Now with a new rotor, I'm still not sure why things have changed. Any more options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Any small bits of rotor that could still be in the distributor? The Loyale distributors are optical-pickup units and something could easily block the slits in the optical sensor interruptor plate..... just a WAG. Other than that - have you checked for spark? If you aren't getting any then you know something is amiss. If you are then perhaps the plug wires are not on the right tower's. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 thanks GD Re:stray bits.. maybe.. also, I was drilling and small filings were in the area..I'll look into that. The car starts, am almost postive I didn't switch up wires, almost. Will check more tomorrow. Assuming wires are correct and nothing in the way of opticals, I'm open for more options. thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Probably just got the wires out of phase. Rotor must point at the terminal for #1 cylinder when that cylinder is on the compression stroke and the engine at TDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 After the destruction you said you replaced the rotor? Did you replace the cap as well? The out of alignment rotor and ensuing damage may have whacked the cap contacts out of alignment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 yes, I replaced the cap and still have the no power issue. I thought maybe I was sold the wrong cap but most everything matches except for the vent situation. What's up with the vent thing anyway? My original has two ports down low and one "escape" up high. The new one eliminates the two ports down below. Thanks..I'm back on this doing some research but still checking in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 I'm still at this. The car starts immediatley and can idle. I can rev it up but it gags at @ 1200 rpms then smoother on upward but still not drivable. I had my elbow on the rubber boot of the air intake most of the time when fooling with this , so I figured maybe I did something there. When removing the boot while idling she dies out...I dunno, supposed to happen? I'm not really set up to be dealing with the timing here, can't get a good visual on any marks, but am about to ghetto the movement of the distributor. Maybe the rotor getting jammed cause the belt or shaft gear to skip??? I don't know what I'm talking about..and sure as hell don't want to be turning the distributor when two days ago this thing ran fine..as long as it wasn't raining (the reason for the new cap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torxxx Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 its a SPFI it is really hard to get any thing down the optical disc in those distributors. I've recently had one apart and I was amazed with the SPFI one. theres nothing inside them besides the disc and the plastic eye. I think you have your plug wires mixed up. #1 points directly at the brake booster and then from there counter clockwise 3 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 thanks to you guys here, I now know the firing order and locations of plugs per sequence number, I double checked, and all is hooked up accordingly. I had to advance the timing A LOT (turned the distributor clockwise all it could go ??!) in order to run this thing down the road without it gagging but it still isn't flowing through the rpms effortlessly like it should. I moved it a number of times,without finding a true happy spot but it starts and idles easily. Guess I need to get real about the exact timing but there may be more than one issue ..this was just supposed to be an easy change of an old distributor cap:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 sounds like the distributor came out and is off a tooth or so. you're positive it didn't come up at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 I'm not positive about anything other than my wires are in sequence. If I pull up on the rotor things are tight. When you say the distrib may have come up are you talking about the shaft that holds the rotor? cause that seems tight also. I don't know much about how the timing belt is clued in here or what it would take, force wise, to make a tooth skip on the shaft (what's the real name?) I removed the dust cover of the distrib and looked inside.. didn't see anything bent or any debris. Looked pretty cool in there. It does seem as if the timing may want more advancement but that's not possible by turning the distributor cause it's maxed out in the clockwise direction. I could be totally off on that line of thinking. It ran slightly hotter than normal in the advanced position also. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 There are two bolts that hold the entire distributor in place. I believe it's one of those that broke/or stripped right? With those two bolts removed the entire distributor assembly (with cap and rotor) can be pulled up...and actually removed from the engine. If you pull it up only a little bit, like an inch, then drop it back down chances are it's not lined up correctly. There are teeth at the bottom of the distributor that engage with the cam. There's only one way for it to be installed so these gears are properly lined up. If you pulled up on the distributor (those two bolts would need to be removed), it may have jumped a tooth. They are enormous gears (relatively speaking) and definitely could only jump teeth if you pulled the distributor up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Just start over from scratch. 1. Verify your valve timing. Find the three lines on the flywheel (not the ignition timing marks) and line up the center one with the pointer arrow on the bell-housing. 2. Check that the cam's are in alignment - the driver's side mark should be straight up, and the passenger side should be straight down. 3. Turn the engine to TDC on the compression stroke of the #1 cylinder. Pull the plug and stick your finger over the hole. As you turn the engine over, when the #1 cylinder reaches the compression stroke both valves will be closed and the piston will push air past your finger. When you feel this keep turning till the ignition timing marks come into view and set the arrow on 20* BTDC (that's the 20 mark that's BEFORE the 0 when turning clockwise0). 4. Install the distributor with the rotor pointing at the #1 plug tower on the cap. Just eye-ball it. It moves a healthy distance if you are a tooth off so it should be pretty easy to get it. 5. Install the wires in the order 1,3,2,4 in a COUNTER-CLOCKWISE rotation from the one you chose to be #1. 6. Install your plug and fire it up. Fine tune the timing to 20 BTDC on a timeing light with the green diagnostic connectors plugged together. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 There are two bolts that hold the entire distributor in place. I believe it's one of those that broke/or stripped right? With those two bolts removed the entire distributor assembly (with cap and rotor) can be pulled up...and actually removed from the engine. If you pull it up only a little bit, like an inch, then drop it back down chances are it's not lined up correctly. There are teeth at the bottom of the distributor that engage with the cam. There's only one way for it to be installed so these gears are properly lined up. If you pulled up on the distributor (those two bolts would need to be removed), it may have jumped a tooth. They are enormous gears (relatively speaking) and definitely could only jump teeth if you pulled the distributor up. Ohhh man, now I see the confusion. Nooo, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I have a distributor cap that is held down with two screws. It's one of those screws that stripped, not the bolts that hold the distributor body. No, the distributor body never moved upward. Thanks for following this plight...it ain't over Gen.Dis., Sounds like it would be near impossible for the gear to skip unless the distributor body came up, right? And the only force involved was the original rotor knocking around under the disty cap that was loose because of a stripped screw. I must be dealing with something else and yeah going back to scratch is logical isn't it..Fuuuuuuuubbbbbbbarrrrrrrr!!!! I'm just visiting, ya know the T-day family thing, and this happened..not set up for mechanics here.. I guess you guys have done all you can for me many thanks RJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 You should be able to do the entire procedure I outlined with the Subaru tool kit that should have come with your car. But seriously - no joke. You could do it with that. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Well I DO have my leatherman..heh. What a gorgeous day..to be sticking my head in the Suby. I did a lot of searches here on the word "distributor". God,.. the stories. *Maybe I just have the wrong cap*.. but it sure would have to be a very subtle difference. The only thing I can see that doesn't match are the vent of the caps. QUESTION..the caps are symetrical right? ..so theoretically I could ignore the #1 on the cap and rotate it but still put the #1 wire where it's supposed to go, right? The car was running fine, all I wanted to do was eliminate that "won't start in the rain" issue and I'd seen the arcing coming out of the original cap. The move I made on turning the distributor to get this to run was drastic. It just CANT be right. It HAS to be the wrong cap....right? what a gorgeous day.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Maybe - but if it's the screw-down style then it's probably right. Most of the other's that they made were not screwed on. AFAIK, there is only one type of optical pickup distributor for the later EA82's - they used the same disty from '87 to '94 on SPFI, MPFI, and Turbo cars. They changed some plugs and pin-out's but otherwise they are all idetical in consruction that I've seen. Try the whole procedure and see if that sets you back on track. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 1. Verify your valve timing. Find the three lines on the flywheel (not the ignition timing marks) and line up the center one with the pointer arrow on the bell-housing. GD ^^ found these 2. Check that the cam's are in alignment - the driver's side mark should be straight up, and the passenger side should be straight down. GD ??where are these marks you speak of? I found everything else to be in order...the rotor points to #1 when a TDC.. thanks again...still at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 The marks are actually small holes on the outside diameter of the cam sprockets. like 1/16" holes. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Do I need to have the valve covers off..is that what you're saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 No - just the two outer timing belt covers. The marks are right on the cam sprockets - 1/4" below where the belt rides. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick James Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 ohhh man alright... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akc Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 http://offroadingsubarus.com/timingbelt_ea82.html here is the glossy photos for timing I used this when I had issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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