rainman19154 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Perhaps a pesky question, if so I'm sorry... I went to cars101.com to research this question but didn't see anything that set the two generations apart. Both listed as having 2.2L with AWD. What are the mechanical differances between a Gen 1 Legacy versus the Gen 2... hypothetically a 1992 vs 1995? My '95 Lego has 2.2L AT/AWD. Are there Gen 1 Legacys with manual 4WD? Any of them offer LSD? Are the differances just the changes in body style? I read another thread where a member was asking about a used EA81/EA82 and someone responded the OP should look for a 1st Gen Lego. My observation is for a play car, I'd prefer the older manual 4WD. Also, the ground clearance on the Legacys isn't any better at all and it feels like a heavier car. The 2.2L is a good power upgrade, certainly. But while the AWD maybe ok in urban settings, I do miss the DR 4WD my old rusty wagon had. If I'm in the wrong section, I'm sorry. And please don't flame me, I'm trying to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySchmitty Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 The Legacies here in the States have always been AWD insead of 4WD; a viscous coupling between front and rear axles as opposed to hard mechanical linkage. I know that in some places in the world they sold Legacies with a dual-range transmission which to me implies it was true 4WD. I might be wrong, but I think some of the 1st gen Legacy Turbos had LSD. Also, there is this article in the repair forum about using an LSD from a specific model of Impreza to convert a 5 speed 1st gen Legacy. Good luck, I hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 mostly body style stuff as the suspension, steering, drivetrain, axles, struts, hubs, all that stuff is completely interchangeable from 1990-1999 on Legacy's. Went from OBD1 - OBD2 in 1995 so the electronics changed a bit but the motors are still the same and interchangeable, just the stuff bolted to them got tweaked. Minor changes through the years: 1990-96 non interference 97+ interference 96+ = single exhaust port so the manifold is different (though the manifolds easily interchange so you can still swap engines easily. Mostly minor stuff, but good to ask specifics once you know what you're after. As for EJ compared to older stuff: EJ22's are excellent in terms of reliability and power and still can get decent gas mileage. You also have ABS, Air bags, and tons of upgrade options like struts, brakes, wheels, etc. EJ22 vehicles are now getting very easy to find cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 I might be wrong, but I think some of the 1st gen Legacy Turbos had LSD. Also, there is this article in the repair forum about using an LSD from a specific model of Impreza to convert a 5 speed 1st gen Legacy. Good luck, I hope that helps! 5 speed? Wrong ratio for the AT? Differant length in the driveshaft? Why specifically a manual tranny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 5 speed? Wrong ratio for the AT? Differant length in the driveshaft?Why specifically a manual tranny? what in the world, i'm totally confused? Might need a full sentence to see what you're getting at. I will guess - Yes 5 speeds and auto's can have different final drive ratios - easy enough just get a matching rear diff, done deal. Yes driveshafts are different lengths between auto to manuals. Driveshafts are two pieces - the rear half is identical and interchangeable between them all - it's the front half that varies in length based on auto/manual. If you're talking cross EA/EJ questions then there's even more caveats to all this, but I can't tell what you're asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoobySchmitty Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 yeah, it's the wrong ratio for the transmission. Someone laid out the whole line of which configuration got what rear differential for most of the generations, can't remember all of it. I believe the non-turbo 1st gens received a 3.9 rear for autos and 4.11 for manuals. Managed to kill 2 transmissions in my first Subaru and found out after the fact someone replaced the rear diff with one from an auto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 using an LSD from a specific model of Impreza to convert a 5 speed 1st gen Legacy. 5 speed? Wrong ratio for the AT? Differant length in the driveshaft?Why specifically a manual tranny? I will rephrase... why is the LSD swap from an Impreza specified for the 5 speed manual? Are the automatics excluded from this for a reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 yeah, it's the wrong ratio for the transmission. Someone laid out the whole line of which configuration got what rear differential for most of the generations, can't remember all of it. I believe the non-turbo 1st gens received a 3.9 rear for autos and 4.11 for manuals. Managed to kill 2 transmissions in my first Subaru and found out after the fact someone replaced the rear diff with one from an auto! aaah, I saw this late. Sorry. I have read the write up: it was just a few paragraphs. There is another thread where the ring gear? is changed, altering the final drive ratio of the LSD. How viable is this for the auto's 3.9? (Yes, I know purists want an MT and automatics are only "for boat anchors or for making it easier to multitask at a traffic lights".) I'm an urbanite... I hate crawling through traffic with a manual. Been there, done that, would prefer not to if I can avoid it. Specifically, in the past I've commuted with four differant MT Subbies, and two differant Toyota 4Runners both with MT. Any offroading/off pavement situations I anticipate, the automatic will do just fine. I'm more concerned about ground clearance if things do get dicey.:-\ But I'm gathering info to better understand my options or choices. I appreciate the responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=97885 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=83785 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=90005 Ok.... went over these posts and did find some useful stuff. Assuming my manual is accurate and my '95 does have a 4.11 final drive, I do have options. (I will crawl underneath and see if there's a tag on the rear diff I can get a number off of.) The project itself seems plenty doable... I've tackled worse. Now I just need to get lucky at a wrecking yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 your thread seemed very general at first, wasn't sure where you were going. seems you're looking for mostly trans info right now? LSD - is not applicable to the auto trans in terms of the center differential because it doesn't have one, it works compeletly different than a manual trans. don't think as an automatic as a "automatic manual" - there's few similarities. the auto's have rear transfer clutches. which is actually really sweet for off road/snow because you can install a switch to control the Duty C solenoid and "lock" whenever you want rather than let the computer decide for you. i've done it a bunch of times to my daily drivers with 4EAT and it's fantastic. requires splicing a switch into one wire, very simple. as for the rear differential, you can easily swap in an LSD if you want one. and the front differentials are part of the transmission "transaxle", there are LSD options for that as well. all of this stuff is covered in other threads if you want specifics about either of those 3 options above. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Ok - I'm confused - what *specific* questions do you have. Your '95 AT probably is a 4.11 rear diff. But there likely won't be a sticker on it. You can count the ring gear teeth in it though if you really want to. But please lay out some specific questions if you have any - I have worked on a ton of gen 1 and 2's so I can probably answer. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 (edited) well, thanks for being so dedicated.... My initial question was just a general inquiry to see what differances there were. A: anything that could upgrade my 1995 Legacy L model? B: When looking for a second car, would an older Legacy offer advantages? I've read mention of 1st or 2nd gear lock up of the 4wd in the early models but all the answers I got here says they're all just generic AWD. I really would be game to do an LSD swap and I think I've read enough to have an idea what I'm looking for (2002 or newer WRX wagon or an older Lego Turbo model) to scavange an LSD diff and appropriate axles off of. Is this a feasible project? I'm basically very happy with my Lego, though I've only put 1600 miles on it. It runs great. It's a huge upgrade from the early models I'd dealt with years ago. The chassis is nicer overall and the 2.2L is a monster compared to the four EA81/82 models I'd had in the past. I haven't had any winter conditions to generate comment on the AWD, but instinctively, I miss having manual control of FWD vs 4WD. Edited December 1, 2009 by rainman19154 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 well, thanks for being so dedicated.... My initial question was just a general inquiry to see what differances there were. A: anything that could upgrade my 1995 Legacy L model? Upgrade? Probably not. Most Gen 1 stuff won't fit other than the mechanicals which are, for all intents and purposes, identical. B: When looking for a second car, would an older Legacy offer advantages? Only if it's a turbo. And if you are looking for one with an LSD they were only equipped with same in '91. All subsequent years were open. I've read mention of 1st or 2nd gear lock up of the 4wd in the early models but all the answers I got here says they're all just generic AWD. As far as manual transmissions, they were AWD only. The AT's were capable of locking into 1st or 2nd gear via a "manual" button. This is designed for better traction on snow, etc. But that's not a "4WD" lock. They can be modified via the duty-c solenoid to lock into 4WD in a 60/40 configuration but so can your '95. I really would be game to do an LSD swap and I think I've read enough to have an idea what I'm looking for (2002 or newer WRX wagon or an older Lego Turbo model) to scavange an LSD diff and appropriate axles off of. Is this a feasible project? Yes but you really don't want the '91 turbo LSD as it uses "outie" axles instead of the "innie" style that your '95 uses. The WRX diff would work fine. I don't think you will notice it at all with an automatic though - auto's don't put any more power to the rear end than they need for the wheels to not slip. They are basically 2WD cars till the front wheels spin and then they transfer power to the rear. So an LSD on the rear that only get's 20% torque transfer unless the front's are slipping? And the LSD's are actually VLSD's and only work at speed - thus they do absolutely nothing for a standing start - speeds aren't high enough, fluid isn't hot in the viscous coupler and you aren't turning..... huge wasted effort IMO. The VLSD comes into it's own when coupled with a manual tranny and 50/50 torque split. Then you can really get the VLSD to push you around corners - it's quite a lot of fun. I have a '91 Turbo Sport Sedan and I love it! I'm basically very happy with my Lego, though I've only put 1600 miles on it. It runs great. It's a huge upgrade from the early models I'd dealt with years ago. The chassis is nicer overall and the 2.2L is a monster compared to the four EA81/82 models I'd had in the past.I haven't had any winter conditions to generate comment on the AWD, but instinctively, I miss having manual control of FWD vs 4WD. You can have manual control - just hook into the duty-c solenoind and you can lock that tranny into 60/40 split 4WD (it will bind around corners just like a 4WD). Which is a great feature and one that the manual AWD's don't have. It's a couple wires and a toggle switch on the dash. Really quite simple. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 You can have manual control - just hook into the duty-c solenoind and you can lock that tranny into 60/40 split 4WD (it will bind around corners just like a 4WD). Which is a great feature and one that the manual AWD's don't have. It's a couple wires and a toggle switch on the dash. Really quite simple. GD. thx a lot.... I've seen the post on this (pins #4 &11??) and was curious if it would apply to my gen 2. This I can handle easily enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destey Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Japan went through some very hard times in the early to mid 90s (not that they're out of it now). Subaru did extensive cost savings during the early 90s and it was implemented into the gen2 95+ subarus. Door handles plastic not metal Seats Map lights Trans position indicator Electric auto seat belts A few examples. If you compare each part you'll see many have cost savings engineered in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 If you're really interested in an LSD, you could try to take the carrier and stuff out of an SVX rear LSD and swap that into the Legacy LSD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) Huh... ok. that will have the same 4:11 gearing? I wonder how many of those are lying around the junkyards? I'm sure I wouldn't know an SVX if I saw it..... edit: did a spot of research and now know what car we're discussing here. Sports cars being what they are, I bet they do show up in wrecking yards. Edited December 4, 2009 by rainman19154 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 as for snow performance - nothing beats good tires. i'd rather have a FWD car with happakellita's or studs than a 4WD truck with non-snow tires. i love having LSD - but i'm also doing signfiicant off road and snow driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Huh... ok. that will have the same 4:11 gearing? I wonder how many of those are lying around the junkyards? I'm sure I wouldn't know an SVX if I saw it..... edit: did a spot of research and now know what car we're discussing here. Sports cars being what they are, I bet they do show up in wrecking yards. It wouldn't have the same gearing. Hence why I said to swap the carrier and all the LSD business out of the SVX diff into the Legacy diff. SVX's do end up in junkyards quite frequently because once their transmissions grenade, people just junk them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainman19154 Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 It wouldn't have the same gearing. Hence why I said to swap the carrier and all the LSD business out of the SVX diff into the Legacy diff. Ah OK Gotcha!! Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausubaru92 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 96+ = single exhaust port so the manifold is different (though the manifolds easily interchange so you can still swap engines easily. So do you mean single siamesed exhaust ports like the EA82's had? Ive never heard of this before on an EJ. I thought they were all dual port. Have you got any pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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