nathan.chase Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Dear USMB's, I am looking at 1995 Outback L, 188k, 2.2L engine for $1900 tomorrow. So far the owner says it needs: 1. water pump replaced right away 2. should probably do timing Belt too w/ pulleys and all if I am doing the water pump. 3. register the vehicle in California from Washington. (smog, brake/light test) He mentioned that he had the coolant tested for exhaust and had no issues but said Subaru's at this high mileage tend to need head gasket repairs. Seems like he is trying to cover his rump roast, or he is genienly trying to be honest. Or it is lacking power and he was trying to figure out what was wrong. I used to have a '87 GL so I know a little about Subaru's from repairing it. In your experience what should I look for with these cars? What goes at 188k? Do the 2.2's have head gasket issues? seems the EA 1.8L didn't @ 220k, but the EJ2.5's do. What would one of these car's sell for in good condition if I wanted to get rid of it after repairing the pump? your expertise is highly appreciated. -nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 the 2.2's are pretty rock solid, and rarely blow their headgaslkets unless there is an underlying issue. I had a 1995 legacy with 258,ooo miles. with the mileage on the car, its most likely the original water pump going out, which usually holds out to 200-225,000 miles. dont worry about the head gasket unless you continue to drive with the bad water pump. you would be safe to go ahead and change the water pump and timing belt and have many trouble free miles. what you want to determine from the seller is if the car had a chance to over heat from low coolant due to the leaky pump. i would assume the problem just started, and the seller parked his car and put it up for sale rather than pay the cost of repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 188k would put this engine at it's 3rd T-belt change (60k interval). You already know it needs the T-belt service. In addition to replacing the pulleys and any seals that are leaking, you'll want to inspect the oil pump. On the rear of the oil pump there is a cover held down by several flathead, phillips screws that like to work themselves loose. It's recommended to check those screws and even reinstall them using loctite. Also, be aware that you should use an anaerobic sealant when reinstalling the oil-pump as the grey or blue gasket maker can fail to dry properly and end up clogging oil passage ways in the engine. And of course all the usual used car rules apply, was it maintained, how was it driven, etc etc. Check the sticker under the hood to see if the car meets Cali emission standards. If not you might have problems passing smog. It should be an OBDII vehicle and thus as long as the engine check light is not on it will probably pass smog fine. I'm pretty sure CA law requires the seller to make sure the vehicle passes smog which is pretty pricey in Ca so I'd make the seller smog it. Check it for "torque bind" (search the forum for it) which is the term used to describe the malfunction of the all wheel drive system. This shows up primarily in the auto trans but can happen in the manuals too. To check for it, turn the wheel all the way to the right or left and let the idle pull the car along. If you feel a jerking or stuttering the trans probably has torque bind. In the autos this can sometimes be fixed with a series of fluid flushes. Good luck! Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelbteam Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Sounds like alot of money considering what it needs by the time you replace pump, belt, pulleys, etc. How about CV joints, wheel bearings, etc. Sounds like it may not have had any recent attention so there may be other issues. Clutch? Last year in SLC I paid $2000 for a nice 96 Outback 2.2 manual with new clutch and TB, 180K miles. Running strong. Also bought 97 Outback [2.5] with rebuilt trans, new head gaskets and timing belt for $1800. Maybe make lower offer or wait for better car for a little more money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaru Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 (edited) from what I understand 95 is not a real outback just a two tone paint job and fogs + on a lego I realy dont know but read this http://www.cars101.com/outback_archive95-97.html#about%20outbacks Edited February 9, 2010 by bobaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 $1900 sounds steep to me. I bought my 96 sedan for 1200 with a bad clutch and a few oil leaks with lower mileage. I could see 1900 for a rust free car needing little to no work. But you're gonna have anywhere from $250 - $500 in the car on repairs just for what you DO know about now. There may be other work that it needs. I'd maybe offer 12-1500 depending on the condition of the body (15 if it's free of rust). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I usually won't comment on price unless the person posting is located in the same area as me since prices really fluctuate a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaru Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I usually won't comment on price unless the person posting is located in the same area as me since prices really fluctuate a lot. x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_henderson1 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 from what I understand 95 is not a real outback just a two tone paint job and fogs + on a lego I realy dont know but read this http://www.cars101.com/outback_archive95-97.html#about%20outbacks thanks for the link.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Sounds like the price is at the high end also; especially since you'll likely be spending another $500 to $1500 for the timiming belt and water pump service. Also, emissions might be an issue since it's going to CA; check the laws regarding that. Earlier poster indicted it's OBDII---as far as I know OBDII did not start until 1997. As a price comparison, I paid $3950 three years ago for a '97 Impreza L wagon with 120K on the odometer (in WA state near Seattle). Check Kelly Blue Book and NADA for a good current price evaluation for the car you're looking to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 .... emissions might be an issue since it's going to CA; check the laws regarding that. Earlier poster indicted it's OBDII---as far as I know OBDII did not start until 1997. My '96 outback is OBDII so I was making an assumption about the '95 you're looking at. but as bobaru pointed out, the "outback" was just an option in '95 so it was probably just a regular legacy with fancy clothes on. But '95 was also the year of the legacy's redesign so OBDII may have have been a part of that. The way to tell would be to look to the lower left of the steering wheel a bit above where the hood release is and see if you see a cover there that says "diagnostic connector". This is where you plug in an OBDII scanner. I don't believe the OBDI system has this but I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong. Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 OBD2 started in 95 for the Legacies. The 95 and 96 cars have some exemptions for emissions testing because several of the readiness monitors reset after each ignition cycle. Not sure how that applies to CA emissions test requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 OBD2 started in 95 for the Legacies. The 95 and 96 cars have some exemptions for emissions testing because several of the readiness monitors reset after each ignition cycle. Not sure how that applies to CA emissions test requirements. Hmm... good info. I reiterate my earlier statement about having the seller smog the vehicle (per Ca law circa 1990's) or let you take it to smog before you pay. Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan.chase Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 So I went and looked at it and here is what I found: 1. It drove extremely well, even power throughout the range. 2.Didn't know about the torque bind issue so I didn't check. 3. When I lifted a front wheel off the ground with the jack it had some play rotating forward and back. is that normal? THere weren't any clunks when going between drive and reverse. MY BIG QUESTION: I couldn't find whether it was california emissions ready, no sticker. Somebody told me that 1995 and up are all built for Californian emissions standards. Is that true? if anyone has car fax it would be great to get the info on the car. I don't have carfax. vin: 4s3bk6356s7337098 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaru Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 walk away I just reread your ? if im reading this right that is a WA car in CA that makes the value of the car scrape metal if he cant get it to pass I dought you are Not to long ago a person I know tried to get his WA car registered in CA no go stay away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 #3 is pretty normal. There will always be some play in the driveaxles, differential and transmission. It's all very small amounts of play, but when you turn the wheel it is magnified to about an inch or slightly more of rotational play at the tread of the tire. What you should check for is looseness in the wheel bearings and ball joints, and tie rod ends by trying to rock the tire at the 12 and 6 o'clock positions, and 3 and 9 o'clock positions respectively. I would inquire with an inspection station about whether the car will pass CA emissions before buying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 walk away I just reread your ? if im reading this right that is a WA car in CA that makes the value of the car scrape metal if he cant get it to pass I dought you are Not to long ago a person I know tried to get his WA car registered in CA no go stay away This isn't a blanket statement. There are lots of reasons for a car to pass or fail smog. I have a '96 Outback which also didn't say if it met California emissions standards or not. I called Subaru of America and they told me it would be fine. As I said before though, the seller is responsible for smogging the car, http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm#BM2537 http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffvr29.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobaru Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 (edited) blanket statement ya prety much ..............but ..............if i lived in CA......... with all the smog laws in CA I would never buy a used out of state car $2000 suby or a $1,000,000 rolls............ the paper work aint worthit another if that car could pass why doesn't it got CA plates on it now ..........If that car had CA plates on it NOW it would be a different story your buying some else's headache................ keep your money walk away there are plenty of others out there is this the car http://humboldt.craigslist.org/cto/1583022374.html thats a FAKE outback, willing to trade for a a running car, he cant get it to pass Edited February 10, 2010 by bobaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I don't really see what the big deal is. As stated numerous times, it's the SELLER'S responsibility to smog the car. If it won't pass then it won't pass and Nathan moves on, if it does pass then it's just like buying any other used car. I wouldn't walk away just because it has Washington plates on it. Clearly the person selling the car is not a mechanic and doesn't want to foot the bill for the maintenance. If Nathan is wrench savvy, so much the better, if not well any used car will need something. Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan.chase Posted February 10, 2010 Author Share Posted February 10, 2010 The only issue is that having a leaking water pump might make it hard to get it smogged. It does have an OBD port above the hood release, does that mean it is definitely OBDII and therefore California smog ready. I don't know what OBDI is or looks like, is that just the LED blinking on the computer? I phone a couple of smog places and they say these are usually fine so this could be a good bargaining chip to get him down on his price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 How badly is the waterpump leaking? Like it leave puddles whenever it's parked or run? As for the smog, I'd either insist the seller do it, or let you do it before you pay him for the car. Keep in mind that cali smog is pretty pricey now too like 80 bucks I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 i'm not familiar with the smog process so i can't comment. but, IMO, a 95 w/ 188k miles for 1900$ should not need a water pump or a timing belt. they will cost you 600$ unless you do them your self. the rest of the car better be perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan.chase Posted February 11, 2010 Author Share Posted February 11, 2010 So they are smogging the vehicle today. If it passes I agreed to buy the car for $1600. means I just need to do timingbelt-waterpump, probably two tires for the front and I'm on the road. I think its a good deal as around here it seems worse looking cars go for $2500. gives me a $900 cushion if I need to sell it. thanks for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 So they are smogging the vehicle today. If it passes I agreed to buy the car for $1600. means I just need to do timingbelt-waterpump, probably two tires for the front and I'm on the road. I think its a good deal as around here it seems worse looking cars go for $2500. gives me a $900 cushion if I need to sell it. thanks for your help Smart move to make sure car passes smog test before buying!! Hope it works out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted February 11, 2010 Share Posted February 11, 2010 probably two tires for the front and I'm on the road. You probably need to replace all 4 tires. With AWD it's critical that circumferences match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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