93 Legacy AT filter or screen?

[SubaruFred]

Just a quick question about the AT filter on the 93 Legacy. I've searched and found many comments that it uses a screen and that there is no need to drop the pan to clean or replace it when changing ATF. However, when I look up replacement filters for the AT, the product photos clearly show a traditional AT filter with paper filter media.

 

I have torque bind and when weather permits the first thing I want to do is change the ATF and filter. I'd really like to know if I have the drop the pan and replace the filter or not. TIA.

[bheinen74]

The filter just inside the pan, is not paper, it is a metal screen. I have never seen one that needed cleaned. You will probably just need to remove the drain plug, and wipe off all the flakes of junk on the plug. Drain, refill with how much you took out. Measure into jug how much you drained.

 

If you do mess with the filter, you will need to go get a o-ring cause it will be shot. It not really the easiest thing to remove if you go that route, but you will see it is not dirty and its just more a hassle to even mess with that.

[SubaruFred]

The filter just inside the pan, is not paper, it is a metal screen. I have never seen one that needed cleaned. You will probably just need to remove the drain plug, and wipe off all the flakes of junk on the plug. Drain, refill with how much you took out. Measure into jug how much you drained.

 

If you do mess with the filter, you will need to go get a o-ring cause it will be shot. It not really the easiest thing to remove if you go that route, but you will see it is not dirty and its just more a hassle to even mess with that.

 

Please forgive me for asking this but have you personally confirmed that the 93 Legacy uses a metal screen filter inside the pan? The reason I have to ask is because I was told that my 97 Prizm and 01 Corolla also had metal screen filters but both actually had paper filters that needed to be replaced. A new o-ring and pan gasket are included with the new filter. Thanks.

[bheinen74]

the 91-94 Turbo Legacy trans is metal. I confirm that. Not sure why the non-turbos of that era would be any different at all. Its a fine mesh metal.

If you replace it, go with a Subaru OEM because if what you are finding is made different, it may harm something.

[idosubaru]

you're getting mixed up info, where are you shopping? if you ever get confusing information you can look it up somewhere else and usually confirm things in about 30 seconds. like this:

 

try thepartsbin.com:

 

they show the metal filter for your 1993 Legacy (and no spin on external filters):

 

http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalog/?N=1719+11736+4294963352&Ntt=transmission%20filter

 

and the spin on external filters for the later models (scroll down to see it here):

http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalog/?N=1719+11735+4294963366&Ntt=transmission%20filter

 

you could repeat that same search at autozone, advanced auto parts, napa...and get confirmation dozens of different places.

 

and it would all be totally in agreement with everything you'd read here and you could realize that wherever you're getting your other info isn't very reliable. replacing the internal "filter" is pointless and wont' gain you anything here.

 

I was told that my 97 Prizm and 01 Corolla also had metal screen filters but both actually had paper filters that needed to be replaced. A new o-ring and pan gasket are included with the new filter. Thanks.

i wouldn't get into the habit of thinking that car manufacturers always do things the same way, there are vast differences. Edited January 23, 2011 by grossgary

[SubaruFred]

the 91-94 Turbo Legacy trans is metal. I confirm that. Not sure why the non-turbos of that era would be any different at all. Its a fine mesh metal.

If you replace it, go with a Subaru OEM because if what you are finding is made different, it may harm something.

 

Thanks.

 

you're getting mixed up info, where are you shopping? if you ever get confusing information you can look it up somewhere else and usually confirm things in about 30 seconds. like this:

 

try thepartsbin.com:

 

they show the metal filter for your 1993 Legacy (and no spin on external filters):

 

http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalog/?N=1719+11736+4294963352&Ntt=transmission%20filter

 

and the spin on external filters for the later models (scroll down to see it here):

http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalog/?N=1719+11735+4294963366&Ntt=transmission%20filter

 

you could repeat that same search at autozone, advanced auto parts, napa...and get confirmation dozens of different places.

 

and it would all be totally in agreement with everything you'd read here and you could realize that wherever you're getting your other info isn't very reliable. replacing the internal "filter" is pointless and wont' gain you anything here.

 

i wouldn't get into the habit of thinking that car manufacturers always do things the same way, there are vast differences.

 

I was shopping at Rock Auto and they had pretty much the same results that you posted from thepartsbin. The same filter is available from roughly 6 different manufacturers. If you look at the photos that show the filter media inside the metal casing, it is yellow and looks exactly like the paper filter media contained in the metal-cased filters that I recently installed on a 97 Prizm, 01 Highlander, 01 Corolla and 08 Scion. Hence my questions.

 

Below is the Beck-Arnley filter for the 93 Legacy. The Beck-Arnley catalog shows the same photo for this specific filter (044-0262).

 

 

Since later model automatic transmissions used by all oems primarily (if not exclusively) have switched from ss mesh to paper filters, is it not possible that aftermarket suppliers might have received oem approval to substitute better filtering paper media in place of the 1993 oem ss mesh?

[NorthWet]

That picture shows a metal-mesh filter.

 

Been there, done that (both too many times), and always annoyed that I bothered.

[idosubaru]

oh okay, now i see better.

 

be very careful with Rockauto - they don't list parts very well (though in this case it doesn't appear you were lead astray). but for future reference they list 4 cylinder parts for 6 cylinder cars and numerous other incorrect parts...which wouldn't be a big deal except that when you drill down you select which engine/model. anyway - i always double check rockauto part numbers with somewhere else or don't buy if i'm not 100% sure, i've gotten the wrong parts before because of their hokey listings....a friend just got wrong brake hoses in the fall too.

 

you're barking up the wrong tree so to speak. but if you like to learn by experience, then by all means just replace it. over time you'll learn and there's nothing wrong with that. but there's no gains to be had here. here's one way to possibly make sense of it - if something is so wrong with your trans that filters are getting clogged or you need better media, then you have much bigger problems than filters - you'll need a new trans shortly. ATF fluid should be changed but it's not going through a combustion process that contaminates it like engine oil.

 

the filter is open on the bottom so any significant contaminants should come out with a fluid drain. even if it didn't though one piece of something isn't going to cause anything and multiple pieces would mean something is seriously wrong. does that suggest a drain and fill has some advantage over flushes?

[SubaruFred]

That picture shows a metal-mesh filter.

 

Been there, done that (both too many times), and always annoyed that I bothered.

 

I wonder why the steel mesh looks yellow?

 

oh okay, now i see better.

 

be very careful with Rockauto - they don't list parts very well (though in this case it doesn't appear you were lead astray). but for future reference they list 4 cylinder parts for 6 cylinder cars and numerous other incorrect parts...which wouldn't be a big deal except that when you drill down you select which engine/model. anyway - i always double check rockauto part numbers with somewhere else or don't buy if i'm not 100% sure, i've gotten the wrong parts before because of their hokey listings....a friend just got wrong brake hoses in the fall too.

 

you're barking up the wrong tree so to speak. but if you like to learn by experience, then by all means just replace it. over time you'll learn and there's nothing wrong with that. but there's no gains to be had here. here's one way to possibly make sense of it - if something is so wrong with your trans that filters are getting clogged or you need better media, then you have much bigger problems than filters - you'll need a new trans shortly. ATF fluid should be changed but it's not going through a combustion process that contaminates it like engine oil.

 

the filter is open on the bottom so any significant contaminants should come out with a fluid drain. even if it didn't though one piece of something isn't going to cause anything and multiple pieces would mean something is seriously wrong. does that suggest a drain and fill has some advantage over flushes?

 

I haven't had any problems with Rock Auto yet but I just started using them a couple years back. I'll keep an eye out for possible incorrect part listings, thanks for the tip. I usually double-check all of my on-line part purchases anyway since returns are a hassle. I also often choose my own parts based on what mods I've made. Colder plugs and thermostat for custom turbo setup, etc.

 

My reason for asking about the oem filter was simply to determine if I needed to replace the filter. I see no reason to drop the pan on a 170k mile trans with a metal mesh filter. Although the trans might be in better condition had it started life with a smaller micron filter and it was changed as needed, it's too late to reverse any damage now. I'm sure we can agree that Jatco must have had some reason to add the external paper ATF filters and then switch to a paper filter in the pan on later model trans. ATF may not be subject to combustion by-products but it does accumulate a lot of clutch material and gear shavings over time. Naturally most of these fine particles pass right through a mesh filter so it shouldn't become clogged unless a lot of larger pariticles are present, in which case, you're correct and trans failure is probably imminent. At 170k, I'm probably on borrowed time already.

 

Of course I don't know if or when the previous owners may have had the trans serviced or by whom. But since I've now been assured by several USMB members that all 4EAT filters made between 1993 and 2010 use metal mesh filter media, I can rest easy that there's no possible way that I could have a clogged paper filter in my trans. Thanks to all who replied.

 

I know what you mean about learning by experience. I've been doing that ever since I rebuilt and modified my 1971 Yamaha Mini Enduro 35 years ago. Thanks again for your help.

[idosubaru]

you mention torque bind - that's a relatively easy fix. fix either the Duty C or clutches, or both and in most cases you're good to go.

 

if someone wanted more ATF filtering another, and far better in my opinion, solution would be to install an add-on external ATF filter in line with the ATF hoses.

 

I know what you mean about learning by experience. I've been doing that ever since I rebuilt and modified my 1971 Yamaha Mini Enduro 35 years ago. Thanks again for your help.

welcome aboard, you should like it here!

 

i'm actually from Westminster, used to work there and in greenbelt, not too far from you, i go back there often.

Edited January 24, 2011 by grossgary

[SubaruFred]

you mention torque bind - that's a relatively easy fix. fix either the Duty C or clutches, or both and in most cases you're good to go.

 

My duty C appears to be working well. With the FWD fuse installed there is no hint of TB. Without the fuse, it's pretty bad. Turning while backing up feels like the parking brake is on. Is there a DIY here for the clutches and drum? I searched but either the search feature isn't very good or I don't know how to use it very well.

 

if someone wanted more ATF filtering another, and far better in my opinion, solution would be to install an add-on external ATF filter in line with the ATF hoses.

 

I agree! I hate dropping the pan to replace the filter. External would be so much easier. I'm not concerned about better ATF filtering at this point but I was concerned that I might have a replacement paper filter in my pan from a PO. I may drop the pan anyway just to check the filter, see how much junk is in there and clean the pan and magnets but it's good to know that I don't have to.

 

welcome aboard, you should like it here!

 

i'm actually from Westminster, used to work there and in greenbelt, not too far from you, i go back there often.

 

Thanks! I like it here already. I've found lots of great info and knowledgeble people willing to help. I haven't even seen much of the "try the search engine, noob!" replies that are so common at some car forums.

 

Westminster is a nice place, I've got good friends near there. It's a great motorcycle ride from Ellicott City to Westminster on old Frederick Road and 97. Thanks again for your help.

[johnceggleston]

go ahead and do a drain and fill two or three times. you may get lucky and clear up some of your torque bind.

 

if you can't / aren't going to drain and fill now, leave the fuse in unless it snows.

[Rooster2]

I don't recommend dropping the pan just to check on the metal filter screen, or just to see what the bottom of the AT looks like. It is easy enough job dropping the plan. Replacing the pan gasket upon reassembly is nasty. You will absolutely need a dremel tool or similar to grind off the remnants of the old pan gasket from the trany, and the the pan surfaces. It is difficult to find the space to do this work, unless you can get your car up on a lift. Even with good prep, it is still easy to create a pan leak upon reassembly. This lesson I learned a few years back from experience. I will never casually drop a pan again.

[SubaruFred]

go ahead and do a drain and fill two or three times. you may get lucky and clear up some of your torque bind.

 

if you can't / aren't going to drain and fill now, leave the fuse in unless it snows.

 

If it's easy enough to remove the cooler return line I plan to do a complete fluid exchange instead. Drain, re-fill, start engine, pump out 2 qts, stop engine, add 2 qts, repeat until new fluid comes out. This worked great on my Scion when I switched over from Toyota WS to M1 ATF. If not I'll do the dilution exchange as you suggest.

 

The weather here is too bad for me to do anything now so I'll do as you suggest and only pull the fuse when there's snow on the roads (like today). Thanks.

 

I don't recommend dropping the pan just to check on the metal filter screen, or just to see what the bottom of the AT looks like. It is easy enough job dropping the plan. Replacing the pan gasket upon reassembly is nasty. You will absolutely need a dremel tool or similar to grind off the remnants of the old pan gasket from the trany, and the the pan surfaces. It is difficult to find the space to do this work, unless you can get your car up on a lift. Even with good prep, it is still easy to create a pan leak upon reassembly. This lesson I learned a few years back from experience. I will never casually drop a pan again.

 

Good point! I don't know what kind of gasket Subaru used. On the Toyotas I've done recently the pre-formed rubber gaskets all came off cleanly but if they used EPDM gasket-maker like Toyota did on my Scion oil pan, it's a royal PITA to get off. I'll see what kind of gasket they used before deciding whether or not to drop the pan. Thanks.

[idosubaru]

i wouldn't fix the torque bind. leave the FWD fuse in place and then install a switch inside the car to manually change between FWD and AWD via that FWD fuse holder.

 

I and a bunch of folks have intentionally done almost the same modification before to allow us to change from AWD to "locked" torque bind situation like you're describing, except we do it on purpose for snow driving. it's awesome. it would be easier for you as you'd only have to tap into the FWD fuse holder circuit rather than the Duty C circuit.

 

in our case we have AWD and then "locked" 4WD (torque bind for you), in your case you'd have FWD and"locked" 4WD. i'd totally take that over digging into the trans (although it's not that terrible of a job actually to fix, but not a walk in the park either). if you're in MD your exhaust should be plenty rusty and fun to remove. (NOT!).

 

AT filters are very rarely replaced, like almost never, hardly any reason to check.

[johnceggleston]

FYI: like the ''power button'' mod, the FWD fuse switches to ground. so just find the pin location at the TCU and you don't even have to go through the fire wall.

[SubaruFred]

What a freakin' awesome idea! I could even use my now useless "HI" air suspension switch for it. So I could intercept the fwd wire at the TCU and run it to the switch with a 15A in-line fuse to gnd and have push-button AWD. Brilliant! I've already measured better mpg in fwd mode due to the TB.

 

Anyone know where I can find a TCU pin-out diagram?

[johnceggleston]

you do not need the in line fuse. that is just a handy connector to use to complete / ground out the circuit. but you can just use a switch and a wire. fuse is ok but not needed.

[Benfolio]

What a freakin' awesome idea! I could even use my now useless "HI" air suspension switch for it. So I could intercept the fwd wire at the TCU and run it to the switch with a 15A in-line fuse to gnd and have push-button AWD. Brilliant! I've already measured better mpg in fwd mode due to the TB.

 

Anyone know where I can find a TCU pin-out diagram?

 

With air suspension:

[SubaruFred]

you do not need the in line fuse. that is just a handy connector to use to complete / ground out the circuit. but you can just use a switch and a wire. fuse is ok but not needed.

 

That makes sense. Thanks.

 

With air suspension:

 

Thanks but I'm not seeing the image.

[Benfolio]

Odd, it worked last night. Here's the direct link to the alldata image: http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/847476

[SubaruFred]

Thanks! Do you know if the 93 wiring is the same as 98? I don't see the FWD fuse holder in this schematic so I'm not sure how to wire in the switch.

 

BTW, the "HI" switch won't work after all. It's a momentary switch but I need a on-off type.

[idosubaru]

What a freakin' awesome idea!

excellent, glad you like it, you'll be pleasantly surprised. it's definitely a great option. i've done it to perfectly working units. it's easily reversible too it's so simple but my guess is you'll like it this way like i would.

 

Anyone know where I can find a TCU pin-out diagram?

my 1992 Legacy FSM is showing TCU pin #2 Blk-Red. I think that would be a black wire with red stripe.

 

It's way too big and the diagram I have shows that circuit WAY across the page from the pin out....i had to trace it like 5 times to make sure I got it right, but point is I'd post a snap shot of it but it's too big. Test it first - the FWD light should come on so test that it does before completing the connections.

 

I could even use my now useless "HI" air suspension switch for it.

as you already found out the air suspension systems are momentary switches. been awhile since i saw a 1st gen but later models have "empty" plastic covers where buttons would go under the instrument cluster for additional options like fog lights, heated seats, etc. you can pop in an extra button there and use that if those early gen's have those.

 

93 and 98 are going to be similar in some regards but i would not expect wire colors to be the same and some other inconsistencies.

 

good luck, hope it works out for you. headed to westminster end of this week, looking forward to it.

[SubaruFred]

my 1992 Legacy FSM is showing TCU pin #2 Blk-Red. I think that would be a black wire with red stripe.

 

So I would simply intercept or tap this circuit and connect it to one leg of a switch and connect a gnd lead to the other leg? When the TCU sees an open circuit it would be in AWD and when it sees gnd it would be in FWD?

 

 

been awhile since i saw a 1st gen but later models have "empty" plastic covers where buttons would go under the instrument cluster for additional options like fog lights, heated seats, etc. you can pop in an extra button there and use that if those early gen's have those.

 

I don't think I have any blanks in the dash but I'll find a spot for a switch. I have a decent rocker switch for this but I'm thinking I might prefer a push button type instead.

 

good luck, hope it works out for you. headed to westminster end of this week, looking forward to it.

 

Thanks and I hope you miss the freezing rain we're supposed to get tonight thru Wednesday.

[idosubaru]

So I would simply intercept or tap this circuit and connect it to one leg of a switch and connect a gnd lead to the other leg? When the TCU sees an open circuit it would be in AWD and when it sees gnd it would be in FWD?

that's it. or cut the wire and duct tape it to ground when you want FWD.

 

I don't think I have any blanks in the dash but I'll find a spot for a switch. I have a decent rocker switch for this but I'm thinking I might prefer a push button type instead.

yeah i've installed a few rocker switches and they end up being kind of annoying if they stick out too far, easily bumped and what not. my hindsight is about even with your intuition.

 

Thanks and I hope you miss the freezing rain we're supposed to get tonight thru Wednesday.

leaving thursday night hopefully missing it.