fiber_tek Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I have a 95 Legacy OBW with a 2.2l 5MT, and have been having a problem with it. It seems that when the weather is cold and the car is cold, the car will stutter when driving it. It will happen a few times until the car is well warmed up. You have to drive it quite a while before it is warm enough to quit the stuttering. I have cleaned out the IACV, cleaned the MAF sensor, replaced the PCV, and changed the coolant temperature sensor, and the front O2 sensor. It has new plugs and wires and a new air filter. Could a cam position sensor or other sensor be failing without throwing any codes? I had a P0420 with a CEL a couple weeks ago and the front O2 sensor cleared that problem up. I am at my wits end with the stuttering problem, and we are getting ready to take an 800 mile trip. I would rather take the Subaru then the gas guzzling Expedition. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Sounds like you've done a pretty thorough job under the hood! You might want to replace the fuel filter too. Maybe run some Seafoam through the intake, maybe add a bottle of Techron to the fuel tank next fillup (although I wouldn't do both at the same time.) You say "You have to drive it quite a while before it is warm enough to quit the stuttering." Does this correlate to the temp gauge reaching normal operating temperature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Yes you can have issues without thoring a code if it is still working but just getting lazy. It is almost sounding like it is flooding when cold. Where did you soure parts from. You may have to get a good scan tool for the day and read it and freeze the data when it does it to see what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiber_tek Posted February 6, 2011 Author Share Posted February 6, 2011 The air filter from Walmart, the plugs, wires, PCV, CTS from Autozone. I have sent Seafoam through the intake and used a few bottles of fuel injection cleaner and/or Seafoam in the tank. I have to say that using fuel injection cleaner, and/or Seafoam in the tank adds about 3-6 MPG. The temp gauge can be at operating temperature but I still don't think the whole engine and all the parts and sensors are hot, the misfire/stutter will continue sporadically until the engine has been driven quite a few miles. Now that I think about it this happened when the engine had been driven nearly 100 miles, so it was plenty warm, and the road had a slight, very slight, incline. I will certainly try a fuel filter, those are cheap enough. I just don't want to start throwing parts at it. Where would I find a scan tool? Can you usually rent one of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Knock sensor maybe? You can buy a obd2 scanner from harbor freight for about 60 bucks. Some auto retailers will 'loan; you the tool, but you are putting up the face value of the tool until you return it. Otherwise, if you do not return it, you just bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Coolant Temp Sensor description for sure. They won't throw a code. -About 20 bucks new. You might have gotten a bad one. Try another parts place than the one you just got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The air filter from Walmart, the plugs, wires, PCV, CTS from Autozone. I have sent Seafoam through the intake and used a few bottles of fuel injection cleaner and/or Seafoam in the tank. I have to say that using fuel injection cleaner, and/or Seafoam in the tank adds about 3-6 MPG. The temp gauge can be at operating temperature but I still don't think the whole engine and all the parts and sensors are hot, the misfire/stutter will continue sporadically until the engine has been driven quite a few miles. Now that I think about it this happened when the engine had been driven nearly 100 miles, so it was plenty warm, and the road had a slight, very slight, incline. I will certainly try a fuel filter, those are cheap enough. I just don't want to start throwing parts at it. Where would I find a scan tool? Can you usually rent one of these? Some errors herer which are part of the issue or will be soon. Plug wires should be OE, the better quality makes a huge difference. the price vs how long they last make them very cheap. Is there any oil in the spark plug holes. If there is that will cause it. In the evening take a spray bottle and spray the wires and the oils with water. Watch for sparklies. If you see any this may be the cause of your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiber_tek Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Just thinking out loud. Is there a set of sensors that the engine relies on until it gets warmed up and then it switches to another set of sensors? I wonder if a sensor is "hanging up" during the switch? Anyways, I am going to try checking the coil for shorts, change the fuel filter, and try another CTS. Too bad the Super Bowl is on or I would do it right now...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 There is open loop and closed loop. Open loop is used till the engine warms up. in open loop the car operates on pre-programed settings. Once the car is warm it switches to closed loop where all the sensors talk to the ECU and the ECU controls everything in real time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiber_tek Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 There is open loop and closed loop. Open loop is used till the engine warms up. in open loop the car operates on pre-programed settings. Once the car is warm it switches to closed loop where all the sensors talk to the ECU and the ECU controls everything in real time. Hmmmmm. Something to think about after I get some other things looked at. It's amazing how much someone will do before they take it to a dealer! Man, I hate dealers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 It's amazing how much someone will do before they take it to a dealer! Man, I hate dealers!You found some good company then, you should like it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiber_tek Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Some errors here which are part of the issue or will be soon. Plug wires should be OE, the better quality makes a huge difference. the price vs how long they last make them very cheap. Is there any oil in the spark plug holes. If there is that will cause it. In the evening take a spray bottle and spray the wires and the oils with water. Watch for sparklies. If you see any this may be the cause of your problem. No sparklies. I spent quite a while trying that to see if the coil or wires were leaking electrons. Nothing there. When I changed the plugs and wires the spark plug holes were clean and dry, looked like new in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 No sparklies. I spent quite a while trying that to see if the coil or wires were leaking electrons. Nothing there. When I changed the plugs and wires the spark plug holes were clean and dry, looked like new in there. Ok thats one thing off the list. Another no money fix so to speak. Run a new ground from the coils to the car. Sometimes a bad ground can make things flaky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I still think his "autozone" coolant temp sensor is the WHOLE problem. Replace it. The symptoms you have listed are 100% that. go with OEM, even a used one is better. report back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The problem is that the Coolant Temp Sensor has nothing to do with a stuttering engine. Every failure I've read about and seen that was a result of the CTS failing caused a warm no-start condition. I've never seen a dead CTS cause a stutter problem. Since you have a warm stutter problem like I do, I wonder if you have a stuck/sticking injector. When the car is cold and mixtures are really important, a sticking injector makes the car run really rough but when the car is warm and mixture isn't quite as important, the sticking injector's problem is more hidden. I have basically the same problem with my SVX and I've replaced coils, fuel filter, CTS, MAF, air filter, etc. The only thing that fixed my car, albeit for about a day, was having the injector service done at the dealership (I had Subaru bucks to pay for it). Unfortunately, their cleaner ran out and the injector started sticking again, so now I'm going to replace injectors until I get rid of this stuttering problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Well, i have had 5 subarus with failed CTS and they stutter when warming up. then ran fine when warm. Don't think you been there. I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiber_tek Posted February 7, 2011 Author Share Posted February 7, 2011 Just changed the cam position sensor and it still stutters when it gets near operating temperature. Next is the fuel filter, then another new CTS. Does anyone know where the fuse is to stop the fuel pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Just changed the cam position sensor and it still stutters when it gets near operating temperature. Next is the fuel filter, then another new CTS. Does anyone know where the fuse is to stop the fuel pump? WHy do you want to stop the fuel pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiber_tek Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 WHy do you want to stop the fuel pump? I want to depressurize the fuel lines to change the fuel filter. Just throwing parts at it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiber_tek Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 OK, I have changed the fuel filter and another new(different brand) coolant temperature sensor, new cam position sensor, cleaned the IACV, cleaned the MAF sensor, changed the front O2 sensor with a Subaru factory sensor, new plugs and wires, sprayed the coil with water while in the dark, didn't see any sparklies, and I still have the hesitation stutter right when the engine gets to operating temperature. I can make it repeat time after time at 2700 RPM's in any gear. I have a new rear O2 sensor to change out if that doesn't fix the problem then it goes to the, ack!!!, dealer. Why is it we like Subaru's?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 OK, I have changed the fuel filter and another new(different brand) coolant temperature sensor, new cam position sensor, cleaned the IACV, cleaned the MAF sensor, changed the front O2 sensor with a Subaru factory sensor, new plugs and wires, sprayed the coil with water while in the dark, didn't see any sparklies, and I still have the hesitation stutter right when the engine gets to operating temperature. I can make it repeat time after time at 2700 RPM's in any gear. I have a new rear O2 sensor to change out if that doesn't fix the problem then it goes to the, ack!!!, dealer. Why is it we like Subaru's?????? Since you have a warm stutter problem like I do, I wonder if you have a stuck/sticking injector. When the car is cold and mixtures are really important, a sticking injector makes the car run really rough but when the car is warm and mixture isn't quite as important, the sticking injector's problem is more hidden. I have basically the same problem with my SVX and I've replaced coils, fuel filter, CTS, MAF, air filter, etc. The only thing that fixed my car, albeit for about a day, was having the injector service done at the dealership (I had Subaru bucks to pay for it). Unfortunately, their cleaner ran out and the injector started sticking again, so now I'm going to replace injectors until I get rid of this stuttering problem.At idle, try pulling the injector wires 1-by-1 to see if removing one of them doesn't change the idle. Then you'd know which injector is sticking/stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiber_tek Posted February 9, 2011 Author Share Posted February 9, 2011 Mine doesn't have an idling problem, just the misfire/stutter when the temp gauge reaches normal operating temperature. And it only does it when the RPM's are at 2700. It will do it above that but not below 2700, and when it gets completely warmed up it stops misfiring/stuttering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiber_tek Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 Burned out on this car. Going to a shop or the dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Hope it goes well for you and that it's a simple fix. Please do let us know what they find out. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiber_tek Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 Burnt exhaust valve. $655 for parts and labor and I don't have to keep throwing parts at it. This summer it gets a new clutch, timing belt, and water pump..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.