zundfolge Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Hello again... As my bottom end project (1998 Outback) keeps snowballing into more stuff, I'd like to do the clutch again, with the quill/snout repair kit. According to the rather obfuscatory catalog descriptions on RockAuto, it looks like some of their kits come WITH a repair kit... DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE ORDERING THESE PART NUMBERS AND CAN CONFIRM OR DENY THE INCLUSION OF A SUITABLE SNOUT KIT? .... SACHS Part # KF73802 use optional; Standard If the bearing retainer is worn, replace. includes a standard release bearing and repair sleeve that fits over the worn aluminum retainer.; Standard BRUTE POWER Part # 92543 Diaphragm; 8 7/8x24Tx1; Includes Release Bearing Sleeve Repair Kit RHINOPAC/WORLD CAR Part # 15004R Outback; Disc Spec: 8-7/8" OD X 1" ID X 24T, Flywheel Spec: 0.002+; Kit Includes an Oversize Release Bearing and Repair Sleeve That Fits Over the Worn Aluminum Quill; Kit with Repair Sleeve SACHS Part # KF73804 DOHC; If the bearing retainer is worn, replace entire clutch kit which includes an oversize release bearing and repair sleeve that fits over the worn aluminum retainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Go with an Exedy kit from Amazon. Best prices and highest quality (OEM). It is doubtful that you actually need a quill repair kit. If the grooves are too deep for your liking just take some 120 grit and sand it till the transistions are smooth. I have seens some grooves that looked scary but a few minutes with some careful sandpaper work and all was well (and still is with new clutch kit installed). If you *really* do need a repair kit then I wouldn't trust one of those cheapies with a paper-thin sleeve (because your quil has MAD grooves in it if you *really* need a kit - worse than I've ever seen) - get one of the actual REPAIR kits with a removeable sleeve, etc: http://www.subaruwrxparts.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=1793&idcategory=235 GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) I can vouch for the TSK3 Trans Snout Kit from Smart Service. I've used a couple of them w/out issue. The price on their website for the TSK3 is $209, but I think that's old, as I only paid $150-160. Edit: I bought the TSK3 as I had a WRX FW/PP/Clutch and that's what they suggested.....My BAD for forgetting that detail earlier. GL, Td Edited August 29, 2011 by wtdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zundfolge Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Well, the catalog suggests TSK1 for a 1998 non turbo outback, so that is what I ordered. $120+shipping from sumoparts.com THe "quill" isn't terrible worn, but it is worn. I'm still not entirely sure how this wear pattern develops; it's as if the throwout bearing would have to seize and the whole thing would have to spin on the quill. Possibly this happened well before I got the car....T.O. bearing seemed fine when I replaced the clutch at 125k. But the clutch has always felt "funny" in the way in engages. Maybe this well help, maybe I just blew $$$ for nothing...we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Well, the catalog suggests TSK1 for a 1998 non turbo outback, so that is what I ordered. $120+shipping from sumoparts.com EDIT: TSK1 is correct. GL, Td Edited August 29, 2011 by wtdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I have personally done probably half a dozen clutches with varying levels of quil wear - I have never used a quil repair kit. I have sometimes greased them really well, and lately I've taken strips of 120 grit and sanded them down smooth again. In every case you could not feel anything unusual in the clutch after the repair. Typically strange clutch feel or weird pedal behavior is due to a bad slave cylinder, poor flywheel surface, or a cheap pressure plate. In my '91 turbo I also found that the rubber pad that acts as a stop against the CC switch/bolt on the pedal box was compressing with age and allowing the pedal to travel too far upward - causing it to slap the bottom of your foot on release. Some adjustment fixed that "feel" problem. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 No offense, but this TRANS Chart, (which has known to be wrong, but don't think so in this case) shows the '98 Legacy Outback as having a Push clutch, which requires the TSk3. GL, Td Right - but the TSK1 is for the older push clutch. TSK3 is for the '05+ *turbo* push clutch. They may interchange in practice but that's what the various web site's that sell them claim..... both are for push clutch systems. TSK2 is for the pull-clutch. http://www.smart-service.com/store-tranquil-sleeve-kit.html GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zundfolge Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Push or pull? Well, that depends what end the the clutch fork you're looking at.... Seriously, I have to trust that the handful of vendors selling this damn thing would list the applications correctly. But I could be wrong... On that note, can anyone shed any light on a difference in clutches between pre and post 3/1998? Exedy's own page lists two parts numbers for the same application (1998 Subaru Outback 2.5L): Part Number: 15015 and Part Number: KSB04 Below is the link to Amazon listing for the "KSB04" Page 4 of the fittment suggest it only fits Subaru Legacy Outback made 3/98 and later. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/compatibility-chart/B001B5EMS4?ie=UTF8&i=75 Again, another's vendors website suggests a difference at 3/98: http://www.bmaparts.com/item.wws?sku=SUB070681&itempk=93989&mfr=Exedy&weight=15.980 http://www.bmaparts.com/item.wws?sku=SUB002784&itempk=76679&mfr=Exedy&weight=15.250 What the hell is the difference!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) You'll be fine.... and GD is right (as usual!). I just remembered 'Why' I got the TSK3: I upgraded to a WRX FW/PP/Clutch when I did this. Sorry I forgot that detail earlier. Td Edited August 29, 2011 by wtdash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Atlantis Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) I have personally done probably half a dozen clutches with varying levels of quil wear - I have never used a quil repair kit. I have sometimes greased them really well, and lately I've taken strips of 120 grit and sanded them down smooth again. In every case you could not feel anything unusual in the clutch after the repair. Typically strange clutch feel or weird pedal behavior is due to a bad slave cylinder, poor flywheel surface, or a cheap pressure plate. In my '91 turbo I also found that the rubber pad that acts as a stop against the CC switch/bolt on the pedal box was compressing with age and allowing the pedal to travel too far upward - causing it to slap the bottom of your foot on release. Some adjustment fixed that "feel" problem. GD Preparing to work on my transmission as well and having similar issues... What I've done: Replaced Clutch, Pressure Plate and T/O Bearing (Noticed wear on quill, but did nothing at time) due to noise when depressing clutch. Noticed strange/random catching positions ever since clutch and t/o bearing replacement. No leaks, but replaced Slave Cylinder anyway (fixed nothing - now I have two). Constant pedal adjustment (back and forth, seems random - no particular sweet spot) in order to maintain drivability. I have been doing this once a week for about a month. Car is now on jack stands and preparing to pull transmission. Ready to rebuild completely if necessary. Purchased TSK1 in hopes that bearing will guide it self more efficiently to the pressure plate. Overvew of Symptoms: Transmission makes a 'whirring' noise in all gears. Primarily when shifting. Noise is present when traveling at high speeds too. Completely random catching positions when using clutch. What I plan to do: Turn-down/replace flywheel. Install TSK1 over snout. Replace Input Shaft bearings and seals. Replace all synchronizers (unless I find this to be rediculously difficult - which it may be) Replace clutch again if worn or deforemed from previous job. Specs: 2008 Legacy Outback 2.5l Non-Turbo (5MT) 88,100 mi. About 1,000 miles put on new clutch. Any suggestions? Edited June 23, 2014 by Mr.Atlantis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Replace all synchronizers (unless I find this to be rediculously difficult - which it may be)It is ridiculously difficult. Replacing the synchros is very time consuming and requires a press. The synchros which take the most beating (1&2) are on the counter shaft, and require disassembly of the entire shaft in order to replace. You then have to check and possibly reset the front pinion depth. At only 88k miles I would have to suspect water or other contamination of the fluid, or low fluid level to cause the whirring sound. This is typically due to a worn mainshaft rear bearing, but the bearings usually last about 150-200k miles before becoming an issue. Mainshaft bearing noise will coinside directly with engine speed. It may also vary depending on load. Check the input shaft for play. A small amount of side to side play is normal. Try to move the input shaft in and out. Any play in and out is a sign of a bad mainshaft bearing. Other possibilities are a worn bearing in the transfer housing. Any noise from the transfer housing will be wheel speed dependent. This can also vary some depending on load and can change during gear shifts as thrust loading of the transfer gears changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Atlantis Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Fluid condition and capacity meet spec. This issue seems to have been present for a while. It only just became more evident after fixing the Throw out bearing (as it's noise was masking the transmission noise). If I decide to just go in and replace just the seals and bearings - is it possible to pull the shaft assembly without having to disassemble everything, gear by gear? Just to clarfiy, the mainshaft 'rear' bearing... This is the input shaft bearing at the front, just behind the quill and throw-out bearing right? Or are we talking about another bearing somewhere closer to the actual rear of the transmission? Does anyone have any pictures of this transmission open cased? I will check play once trans is out of car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Yes, there are a few threads about replacing the mainshaft ball bearing. The mainshaft ball bearing is on the back end of the main/input shaft. There is a roller bearing at the front, but it just slides off and hardly ever goes bad. The best thread for pictures is called Easy Transmission Front Seal Replacement, or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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