belezeebub Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 This is not a put down and I am not trying to offend anyone but I am a blunt person looking for a straight up answer. My Son saved up his money and purchased a 1980 Brat, with a Used Japanese Motor and a colossal hack job of everything else. I didn’t try to talk him out of it, I just explained what I considered to be the potent ion issues of such an old car in the condition this one was in and in the end his Love of Subys won out over Logic. He paid 1500 for it; I am looking at it logically. I see the following The Prior owner mickey moused everything he replaced the wiring hardness or parts thereof with other Suby parts year make and model unknown, we have had to spent hours in a junk yard taking apart random Suby to find the correct parts because we don’t know what vehicle year make and model some of the donor parts came from. Issues 4x4 Locks up refuses to disengage (randomly) jacking all four tires off the ground and running it in reverse seems to get it to unlock. Drivers door won’t lock door lock is broken (someone already tried to hot wire it once took 6 weeks to find a replacement ignition switch) Small Coolant leak driver’s side (blown head gasket, cracked block or warped block) Unknown Webber Carb hacked onto the intake, Car Diesels when you turn it off Stock transfer case transmission replaced with something else? Judging by the hack job 4x4 engagement level and the 4 speed gear shift moved back 4 inches Needs Shocks Dash Board replaced Huge Hack job on the wiring Converted to rear disk brakes (had to match the numbers off the pads because it didn’t match any of the books we have) My Son only sees the good side and doesn’t see the Money pit this is becoming over 700 into it just to keep it on the road in the last 6 months, while I have no problem with the year make and model I don’t think it is a practical car for a 16 year old it needs far too much. I have three options open my wallet and send the car to a shop and have it fixed (3000++ I would assume) or cut our losses and sell it and try something else or store it and get him someone that will be dependable till he has time and money to work on the car. I live in Oregon any Suby shops around that could get this beast running and stable that you could recommend. Needs paint and body work rough guess what to try and sell it for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Welcome! Do you have photos of that Hacked Brat? ... sounds interesting. Also Photos could help to identify the Parts you might need and the donor car. Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belezeebub Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 Welcome! Do you have photos of that Hacked Brat? ... sounds interesting. Also Photos could help to identify the Parts you might need and the donor car. Kind Regards. I call it Brat_N_Stein next time we have an issue I would be happy to supply photos. right now I am trying to get input on if I should bite the bullet and sent it off to be fixed if so where, or sell it and get something else if so how much. the "hack job" is pretty much the whole car everything from the the front radiator being held in by Brackets from home base, to the wrong Webber carb, to the weird front brakes we ended up matching to a 86 and the ignition which also matched a 87. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) If you don't wanna keep it, you can post it in the "Subaru Vehicles for Sale" Section and someone here could buy it. But your "Brat'nStein" sounds like a Nice project to start with... if the Overall body is in Good conditions. (unrusted or very little rust) Also if you sell it, you can buy a Simplier project like This: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/2717759960.html Seems like that XT basically only needs timing belts. Kind Regards. Edited November 25, 2011 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belezeebub Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 Lets say we put 3000 into it would that make it worth 4500? or would it still be worth the same 1500 we paid? if it won't increse the vaule it doesn't make since to me, he needs a dependable car and for the last 6 months we have spent more time fixing his brat then he has spent driving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 If you have the room to keep it, perhaps shop for a different similar subaru. From there, you can salvage newer or better parts from this one to upgrade a more originally complete car. This way, you are gaining by swapping over the rear disc brake, any piece that is in better shape, and then you can go sell it as a whole or as in parts to see some investment back(maybe as a lesson for the boy) but to bluntly answer the question it would be worth the money best to replace the vehicle than to restore this particular example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Your hopes of putting money into it to make it worth more are more than likely futile. Thats as blunt as I can be. If you or your son REALLY wants to save it. Contact GeneralDisorder on here. He's located in West Linn, Oregon and knows more about Subaru than Subaru knows. He's also very blunt on telling you if you should junk it or he can tell you if its worth fixing. There was a nice lifted brat on here for sale for 1500. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belezeebub Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 He really likes it (he smiles when he drives it) he wants to do all this stuff to it, lift blah blah I look at it and see 3000 to 5000 worth of repairs before I would consider it safe to take out of town. I am trying to be logical I called the local shops just to rebuild the engine and tranny is over 3600 bucks and the car still has very little heat in the winter no AC manual Steering, and with an e81 and a 4 speed it really isn't something you want to take on a highway cruise. The Body is pretty straight and rust free so I think it would be worth the 1500 he paid and I know well the Love affair a boy has with his first car I dumped 5k into 68 bug convertible (in 1985 when 5 k was my life savings) when I was his age and that didn't include replacing the belly which was so rusted out you could see the ground go whizzing by. There is very little I can't do with a wrench I can replace the engine, and tranny in 4 or 5 hours, I could make it a 5 speed I might even be able to figure out where the parts all came from, but this a love hate relationship he loves it I hate it. I don’t really want to store it for years till he has his own place and lots of income to dump into this car I want to make sure he has a SAFE Dependable car to get back and forth to school and work in. I want him to be warm in the winter and cool in the summer and every time the phone rings I don’t want the first thing going through my mind to be “what broke on that $#*&@ car this time” (Sorry for the vent) Right now he would have to work 500 hours to have enough to replace the drive train (engine, tranny axels) and the care would be mechanically more dependable but it would stuff suffer from all the jury rigging the last owner did, at what point do we just cut our losses. I spent three months building a 67 ford took untold bucks and two loaner cars to get enough parts sure it is possible to make this brat cherry again but is it reasonable to try? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 ...The Body is pretty straight and rust free so I think it would be worth the 1500 he paid and I know well the Love affair a boy has with his first car ... Reading this, I Believe it worth it. Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 It just depends. As much bashing as I get... I plan to take my EA82 and put an EJ22T or Frankenmotor (EJ25 block with EJ22 heads). Convert it to AWD (4WD currently). 5 Lug swap. Bigger brakes. Better Suspension. Repainted. All black Loyale interior. Etc Etc Etc. Im probably looking at 10-20K in parts and labor... but to me itll be worth it in the end... Theres no way I could then resell the car for 20K... Probably 7K max ( I believe thats what UltimateRX sold for ) The 4 speed is junk. Should be replaced with the 5 speed d/r as it is much stronger and better on the highway. The EA81 is a great motor, be it underpowered at times, it makes about 75-80hp and with a PROPER weber conversion, it hauls. The EA81 doesnt have timing belts like the EA82, EJ22, EJ25 etc. My advice... have him start helping pay for it. That will cut your hours down. Contact GD - this is big... hes really knowledgeable and very respected in his work. Do NOT rebuild that 4 speed d/r. Seriously, not worth it at all. Pick up a good used 5 speed d/r and do the swap... rebuild that if you want to, but the 4 speed is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferox Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 First I would take it to an experienced member on this board to verify what you are really dealing with. GeneralDisorder would be top choice, but there are plenty of other people here that can ID the situation with your Brat. It may be the case that it is not as bad as you think. Since it has a rear disc brake conversion it leads me to believe that the PO had some knowledge about upgrading subies but may have lacked in the execution of detailed installation of things like electrical. If you do keep it, you are in luck that a full engine/transmission transplant is well documented on this site that will greatly improve the power and reliability of the Brat. But as 92_rugby_subie mentioned forget about getting money back from resale, of course this is true of just about any car less than $2,000 unless you buy it for less than $500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belezeebub Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 Already fired off a PM to GD but if he is the guy running the Suby Grave yard I think it is I have been there a dozen times already. I would to find someone I could drop the brat off too hand him a check and come back in a few days/weeks with a Rebuilt motor and rebuild transmission/5 speed and transfer case and fix the dang webber conversion so it stop dieseling? I think the one installed on my Son's brat is just way too big the thing just reeks like unburned fuel and it back fires when you down shift sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 This the same BRAT? http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=127960 Both of you are from same town, some simular issues in both posts, so I had to ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belezeebub Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 Same Color but not the same Brat. Maybe he wants to trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I sent you an email - I don't have a suby junk yard and I'm pretty sure we've never met :-p. I would love to take a look and see what you are dealing with. I never charge for a simple once-over to tell you what you what my impression of it is. It sounds like it's got some nice features that most here would consier an upgrade - the Weber (we typically use a 32/36 DGV) and the rear discs..... Let me know if you want to bring it by. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Already fired off a PM to GD but if he is the guy running the Suby Grave yard I think it is I have been there a dozen times already. I would to find someone I could drop the brat off too hand him a check and come back in a few days/weeks with a Rebuilt motor and rebuild transmission/5 speed and transfer case and fix the dang webber conversion so it stop dieseling? I think the one installed on my Son's brat is just way too big the thing just reeks like unburned fuel and it back fires when you down shift sometimes. You can buy an anti-dieseling solenoid... not worth it. Just put it in first and release the clutch when it tries to diesel... Thats what I do with my weber on my EA82. He does not have a Suby Graveyard. All of his cars run. Hes got a 98 forester that hes rebuilding the EJ25D on (dont know if hes finished it yet) so that obviously doesnt run, but everything else does. His mom would not fly for a Suby Graveyard haha. Hes a good guy, trust me... his outlook/bluntness may piss people off but hes a pretty cool guy... Theres 2 appreciation threads on here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=125083 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=126864 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92_rugby_subie Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Ahh the legend beat me. :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belezeebub Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 I sent you an email - I don't have a suby junk yard and I'm pretty sure we've never met :-p. I would love to take a look and see what you are dealing with. I never charge for a simple once-over to tell you what you what my impression of it is. It sounds like it's got some nice features that most here would consier an upgrade - the Weber (we typically use a 32/36 DGV) and the rear discs..... Let me know if you want to bring it by. GD Talked to SD looks like he will do the work nice guy seems to know his stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stover Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I thought that all teenage boys were supposed to own a beater like this... I had three of them before I learned that the car I drive is much more than an extension of my personality, but a necessary component to life in modern civilization. If it were my son, I'd park the Brat in the garage and have him study the factory service manual for two weeks. Then, I'd have him work out a restoration plan to make the vehicle exactly what he really wants it to be. Then I'd pay him to rebuild each and every part of the car by hand. This way he learns about vehicles and how they go together. This also keeps him at home where you can keep tabs on him. Resolving problems on a beater car is like a rite of passage in teenage American muscle car culture. Let him learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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