Prwa101 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Okay so i have a couple problems going on with my forester, 1 and 2 both started after timming belt change. 1. After changing the timming belt, a weird knocking noice started for a little while, went away figured it was just the tenstioner tightening up. This stopped. 2. After I did the belt, a couple days of driving it a while, I relized it was idling weird, and then it would drop really low about 600, then 250rpms then would studder and die. Read it may be the iavc? Another thing with the rpms when I'm in like 3rd ill be picking up speed, and about 3.5k it'll just really pick up at go like It was holding back till then, Is it just how its Supose to be? 3. At low rpms, almost costing the clutch/motor will start to shake, like it's going in and out of gear really fast. Any idea? Maybe needs a clutch soon? Or adjustment? The car has about 220k on it, still running, no miss fires, nothin other than these recent problems. Anything would help at this point, I'm prolly going to take it to my buddy here soon so I can run the codes. Thank -Prwa Edited January 28, 2012 by Prwa101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 yeah, if the CEL is on, post up the codes. But, of course, double checking the TB timing is a good place to start. Could be a tooth off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.radon Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Look for cracked hose, sounds like possible air leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hm....not really sure on the others, but #2 sounds like the timing might be off a tooth somewhere, though the SOHC is pretty straightforward for getting the marks to line up (much easier than the earlier DOHC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) It certainly is true that I suggest the 'timing is off' possibility MUCH more often than it seems to happen. But it's just something 'on the list'. It isn't common, just shouldn't be overlooked. And the 'weird knocking noise' 'could' have been the TB flopping around - maybe leading to a skipped tooth. Sometimes folks can even see a rubbed spot on the inside of the TB cover. It just kinda fits the symptoms a little. Edited January 6, 2012 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hm...that's true...and it does bring up another good point: the 'new style' tensioner on the phase II does not take kindly to being compressed too fast. Subaru says to take at least 10 minutes compressing it slowly. So if it was simply jammed shut quickly, it might be damaged. The older style didn't like being compressed too fast either but they seemed more stout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Hm...that's true...and it does bring up another good point: the 'new style' tensioner on the phase II does not take kindly to being compressed too fast. Subaru says to take at least 10 minutes compressing it slowly. So if it was simply jammed shut quickly, it might be damaged. The older style didn't like being compressed too fast either but they seemed more stout. I recall reading that many times - just don't have the experience with it you guys do. It isn't often you see someone complain about ANY engine knocking noise that disappears though, so, TB tensioner might not be the issue here. kinda weird. maybe a compression test would show a coupla low cylinders? that would be a slipped timing indication right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 if it's true that this started entirely after the timing belt change chances are really good that something happened during the timing belt install process to cause this. check the timing belt marks. the tensioner might be failing - when they fail and have too much play in them, they start bouncing and moving too much. if it's enough they'll make noise and "knock. if you remove the timing cover you can physically see it doing this. if it's doing that while driving maybe it can temporarily affect timing and cause issues. i haven't seen that before but i have seen the tensioners fail and have too much play in them so it seems plausible for the timing to be artificially *moved* as the tensioner moves. being an interference engine this should be checked very soon. i'm currently repairing a 99 Legacy and 2003 Forester with a load of bent valves due to timing jumping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Yeah I had read that same thing about the tenstionor after I changed the TB.... It took me a couple min to compress it, had to do it twice because the vice was all screwy... And seemed Easyer to compress the second time... But! It isn't making any more noice now, so it could be just a tooth or two off now, seeing as its stoped, but still running. The idel thing seemed to show up after driving up to timberline, and around town. I'll check the timming first! Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It took me a couple min to compress it, had to do it twice because the vice was all screwy... And seemed Easyer to compress the second time... Hm yah that does not really sound good, about it being easier to compress the second time. I usually put them in the vise, then every 30 seconds to minute I just give it a slight turn, while I'm working on other stuff, so that it can take its sweet old time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Okay, I ran the codes. Po420 Cary Po133 o2 bank one. Slow Po130 o2.*** So they all have something to do with the o2sensor. And they guy I bought it from said his machanic said its normal, but that was then. And it's starting to run crappyer.... If the timing was off would it show up in the codes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Okay, got it all apart agin, The belt looked tight, marks looked okay but the marks on the belt were off from where I placed them. So maybe it did jump around. And it would make Sence that it got worse. The tenstioner looked good didn't see it bounch when I started it. Thought I'd do the timming agin, started to compress the tenstioner, took my sweet time, and got it in the vice wrong so I have to loosen it agin, and now not in the vice, I can scwoosh it almost with my hands, but really easy if i put it up aginst something. pretty much like it was the first time. Do I need a new tenstionor? Or will it stiff up it I let it sit? What's a good brand that won't do this agin? I'm some what poop right now but will spring for the extra buck for the good stuff, napa stuff? The worst thing about this is that I need the car tomarrow to drive to class.... So really fast replies would be much aprishested!!! Prwa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 It sounds like you killed the tensioner. You should not be able to compress it with your fingers. That newer style tensioner doesn't seem as stout as the older type. I know you need the car to get to class, but I wouldn't drive it without getting a new tensioner. If the timing jumps enough you could bend valves. Don't know about the Napa tensioner, haven't tried it, not sure they would have it in stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 It sounds like you killed the tensioner. You should not be able to compress it with your fingers. That newer style tensioner doesn't seem as stout as the older type. I know you need the car to get to class, but I wouldn't drive it without getting a new tensioner. If the timing jumps enough you could bend valves. Don't know about the Napa tensioner, haven't tried it, not sure they would have it in stock. Yeah I've noticed the same thing... I've never had this kind of problem with the ej22 ej18 ones.... And no I won't be driving it till I get a new one, I foud this one, http://m.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQSubaruQQForesterQQReplacementQQTiming_Belt_TensionerQQ19982011QQREPS313801.html Looks pretty good, 2 day shipping. Hey thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) I put the tenstioner back in to see if it bounces at all, it dosnt seem to vouch at all and seems to keep the belt pretty tight. Even when I bush on the belt hard it dosnt seem to move, it movies everything else other than that. And I relived the when I did the belt the first time I never "pe loaded the belt by turning the driver side cam counter clock wize, so that could have been enough slack to cause a jump. I'm going to run it for a little while and see if anything changes. It seems to be doing good. Thank for you help! Prwa Edited January 8, 2012 by Prwa101 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 . . . the marks on the belt were off from where I placed them. Don't worry about that. Belt marks only line up once every few hundred revolutions! If your crank and pulley marks line up correctly you're golden. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Don't worry about that. Belt marks only line up once every few hundred revolutions! If your crank and pulley marks line up correctly you're golden. Good luck. i ment the belt lines didnt line up, they should atleast line up with the marks, the crank was off a notch. so i fixed that and seems to be running better, but now the "bucking" as some people call it, shaking and surging at low rpms...... next check, plugs wires, air filter and o2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Well changed the plugs, and air filter. But still does it just not as bad, now I have like 500 more rpms I can drive in with out it bucking. If I unplug the o2 sensor would that tell me if it's ba if it changes the running status of the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Unplugging the front o2 could be a diagnostic. You should then get a CEL for the circuit, and it will simply stay in open loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Unplugging the front o2 could be a diagnostic. You should then get a CEL for the circuit, and it will simply stay in open loop. Okay! I drove the same amout each time, First time, I mistakes the rear o2 for the front, so ran it like that, still bucked. Second time, actually got the right one and unplugged the front o2, didn't miss a lick!! Haha. What now? Need a new o2? And can I run it like that till I get a new one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hm, ok, well that is interesting! I have heard people say the front o2 has given them symptoms like that, but maybe not quite so bad. It can run indefinitely without a front o2. It just stays in open loop A/F ratio control without feedback from the o2. Fuel economy may suffer a little, and it probably won't pass an emissions inspection that way, but it can certainly run like that until you get a replacement. The connectors are sometimes a little funny on ~2000's, sometimes aftermarkets claiming to be a 'direct fit' end up having a different connector on them or cause other issues on the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Probably not related w/ your problem, but make sure you take care of the tensioner. I think the FSM or one of the endwrench articles shows how to test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hm, ok, well that is interesting! I have heard people say the front o2 has given them symptoms like that, but maybe not quite so bad. It can run indefinitely without a front o2. It just stays in open loop A/F ratio control without feedback from the o2. Fuel economy may suffer a little, and it probably won't pass an emissions inspection that way, but it can certainly run like that until you get a replacement. The connectors are sometimes a little funny on ~2000's, sometimes aftermarkets claiming to be a 'direct fit' end up having a different connector on them or cause other issues on the front. Yeah thanks! It's already not getting very good mpg.. Maybe 21. And the CEL has been on since I can remember, running codes about the o2. (Previous posts shows them.) Rockauto has the o2 and tenstoner for pretty good price. Napa wanted 185 for the same one I can get on there for 103. Thanks guys for you help! This truly is the best site on the web! -Prwa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 $103 for the tensioner or the o2 sensor? Not a bad idea to check some of the online Subaru dealers prices just for reference. Ones like 1stsubaruparts.com would be more up your direction. For the front O2, I would suggest looking into the genuine sensor from Subaru because of the connector (Sometimes aftermarket doesn't fit even though they say it is direct fit, or doesn't seem to work quite right even if it does fit). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prwa101 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 $103 for the tensioner or the o2 sensor? Not a bad idea to check some of the online Subaru dealers prices just for reference. Ones like 1stsubaruparts.com would be more up your direction. For the front O2, I would suggest looking into the genuine sensor from Subaru because of the connector (Sometimes aftermarket doesn't fit even though they say it is direct fit, or doesn't seem to work quite right even if it does fit). 103 for the tenstioner, and it's like 49 or 50 for the o2 and it has the same plug as I got in there now! I haven't gon wrong with Rockauto yet, always good parts for the best price. I've used them, or another one for a key way that I couldn't find anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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