On my '99 Outback, I have Starfire tires, one blew out last year on a bad dirt road, so I bought a used spare.  Subsequently, I replaced three with new tires, and kept one of the tired Starfires it still has tread.  Tire places and garages refuse to rotate the tires, I figured it would be better on the rear than driver's side front.  How long have they been refusing to rotate tires if they deem them a risk?  It seems a lame excuse they are afraid of lawsuits/liability they say.  With the cost of these tires around $85 each installed,  it sure seems to be a biased approach.  

It may be because they want to be far away from the blame chain if you have problems with the AWD.

Have you been back to the store that sold you the tires and installed them???            Or,   did you buy the tires on line, an had them installed elsewhere??  What are you being told as to why they are considered a risk by tire rotators??

While mismatched tires won't really cause problems with an open/vlsd/open setup, I can see why they wouldn't want to do it. Most tire shops now keep a lawyer on retainer.

Im sure its so they arent assuming a "hypothetical" liability. They make their money on the meat and potatoes of new sales and installs, so see no need to cater to the rare exceptions where the situation is less than ideal.

I see their point from a legal standpoint, doing business in a world that is so freakin litigious!

 

But still, you'd think they could offer a liability release form that a customer could sign, to cater to us in the real world living with less than ideal situations.

Im sure its so they arent assuming a "hypothetical" liability. They make their money on the meat and potatoes of new sales and installs, so see no need to cater to the rare exceptions where the situation is less than ideal.

I see their point from a legal standpoint, doing business in a world that is so freakin litigious!

 

But still, you'd think they could offer a liability release form that a customer could sign, to cater to us in the real world living with less than ideal situations.

 

I concur, this is why it is important to find a local shop and stick with them. Put cash in their hand for a few years and they will do anything you want, within reason. You have to build relationships for shenanigans.

 

My local tire shop do all kinds of crazy shite, sometimes for free. Rally/Offroad/Shaved/Illegal/Non-dot tires.. bent rims that I need double or triple stacks of weights.. Experiments with tire bead sealers and obnoxious kevlar beadlockers.. But they wouldn't do any of that for a walk-in customer and I have spent a lot of money in their shop over the last 10 years.

 

My advice: Search around for the shop with the smallest stick up its arse. Show up on a boring tuesday/wednesday when no one is around and offer to pay a little bit extra.

Edited August 22, 201411 yr by Ibreakstuff

There really is no such thing as a liability release when they do something that they know is wrong or will damage something or someone.  When you go into a hospital for a operation you will be required to sign all kinds of liability releases before the operation but if something goes wrong you can still sue the hospital and doctors.  In this case it is miss matched tires and the patient is a vehicle that may or may not have problems down the road from the miss matched tires being rotated.  If you did have them rotate the tires you could always say that they didn't inform you of what might happen and try to hold them responsible for the blown front end if it happens.  

 

I personally think that the garage should of told you of the problem with miss matched tires on a AWD vehicle before they said that they wouldn't rotate them.  If you still feel like there will be no problem then rotate them yourself, it only takes a few few minutes per tire and then you will amuse the responsibility.   

keep calling/looking around. 

 

if 25 places refuse to rotate tires then something is wrong with:

 

A.  the tires

B.  the customer (approach, attitude, demands...)

Take the car to Wal-Mart.They will rotate them.

Many places now follow whatever the manufacturer "recommends"...

 

I bought two new skins at Costco for a Honda Civic a few years ago and wanted them on the front (as it is a front wheel drive car).  Costco would only install them on the rear because that is what Michelin recommended.  I actually called Michelin and get sent through about three customer service levels until I got some guy that was really supposed to "know" the reason (the physics).  He had a southern accent and had driven little in snow, so I knew he wasn't going to get it.

 

In the end, I just had Costco install as they wanted (on the rear) and told them as soon as I got home, I would switch them to the front.  

New snows go in the back so that the fronts skid.

 

When the fronts skid, you go straight.

 

When the rears skid, the sass end of the car drifts out sideways.

 

Me, I'd prefer the better pulling and stopping power, I'll handle the back end stepping out...

Many places now follow whatever the manufacturer "recommends"...

 

I bought two new skins at Costco for a Honda Civic a few years ago and wanted them on the front (as it is a front wheel drive car).  Costco would only install them on the rear because that is what Michelin recommended.  I actually called Michelin and get sent through about three customer service levels until I got some guy that was really supposed to "know" the reason (the physics).  He had a southern accent and had driven little in snow, so I knew he wasn't going to get it.

 

In the end, I just had Costco install as they wanted (on the rear) and told them as soon as I got home, I would switch them to the front.  

I have heard that manufacturers want the 2 new tires on the rear, as more of a safety issue. If the 2 new tires were on the front, and more worn tires on the rear, there is a stronger possibility of the car spinning out on wet or snowy roads on sharp exit ramps or sharp turns at speed. My daughter did just that with tire set up as described with her VW on interstate exit ramp on a sharp loop wrap around in heavy rain. She spun off the ramp, went down an embankment, and into a tree, within posted ramp speed. She didn't get hurt, but tore up the front of the car. So, lesson learned, front wheel drive will spin out with poor tires on the rear. Subies with AWD,  not as prone to spin out, but tire installer guys don't take that into consideration.

Browsing through, created an account when I saw this thread. Most recently worked as light duty and lube tech for a Dodge dealership but started a tire man at Americas Tire. The tire industry has moved to keeping new/better tread tires on the rear as the last replier said, due to the testing I wet roads during turns. Also, regardless of if a vehicle is FWD, RWD or AWD, once it starts moving forward, your traction is now in the rear. Hence why FWD cars spin their tires so easily, muscle cars squat on launch, and many top end cars are mid engine rear wheel drive. Moves the center of gravity over where the traction will be.

I have heard that manufacturers want the 2 new tires on the rear, as more of a safety issue. If the 2 new tires were on the front, and more worn tires on the rear, there is a stronger possibility of the car spinning out on wet or snowy roads on sharp exit ramps or sharp turns at speed. My daughter did just that with tire set up as described with her VW on interstate exit ramp on a sharp loop wrap around in heavy rain. She spun off the ramp, went down an embankment, and into a tree, within posted ramp speed. She didn't get hurt, but tore up the front of the car. So, lesson learned, front wheel drive will spin out with poor tires on the rear. Subies with AWD,  not as prone to spin out, but tire installer guys don't take that into consideration.

This is basically what the Michelin guy said.  He pointed me to a demo video on the MIchelin site that showed this.  However, the person driving didn't do anything to try and deal with the rear end slide when it started...no steering into the skid.

 

If your front tires are bald, you can't do anything...no (or definitely less) steering control and easy loss of traction.  The fresh rubber on the rear will keep the tail end from sliding out, but that doesn't help if you can't get going or if you turn the steering wheel but keep going straight.  (This is in reference to a FWD car)

 

If the better rubber is on the front, and the rear slips out, you can often steer into the skid-just like you do on snow.  Is it possible that the skid will turn you around?  Obviously, physics says yes depending on speed, but chances of recovering from a rear slide are better with front wheel control (again, on a FWD car).  [None of this applies to RWD or AWD as they are different beasts]

 

I'm sure my '96 Civic did not have a center of gravity towards the rear tires.  Changing weight distribution may be the case for newer cars, but I don't have any that new!

i was buying 2 new tires for a car recently, last 5 years,

and the national chain tire store said they MUST go on the rear.

 

why?

 

2 tire purchase for the front, accident , death, court case, gozillions of $$$$$$$.....

now all new tires go on the rear.

 

the store MGR, went on to say,

"your best 2 tires should always be on the rear."

obviously he mis-spoke.

if your best tires are always on the rear , theses days,

you would never rotate your tires on a FWD car.

 

this is a Cover Your A$$ deal .

We always put new on front, its from ba k when my boss my shop foreman for honda he did it that way 20 years ago he aint changing now. I put tires where they are going to keep you safest. Not where the person up front tells me. I dont care what a customer thinks. Its my job on the line not theirs. If they dont like it , they can learn to rotate their own tires.

While mismatched tires won't really cause problems with an open/vlsd/open setup, I can see why they wouldn't want to do it. Most tire shops now keep a lawyer on retainer.

 

But it will it will in some cases very quickly.

AWD cars need to have four matching tires, equally worn, same brand. Google, search here, look at any AWD mfg site, they will all say the same thing. Newer outbacks are far more tolerant of a mismatch, but a 99 will not be. 

 

Also a sily question, why not rotate your tires yourself ? 

But it will it will in some cases very quickly.

 

Quickly, I doubt it. Wear over time, almost certainly. And I think the center would blow up before the front/rear open diffs with mismatch tires.

 

But we are in agreement, you should have properly matched tires on an awd car.

 

Why/how would a newer outback be more tolerance?

All the autos have VTD maybe?

Not in 99. 

"Why would a newer outback be more tolerant" was the bear I was poking...

99 has to have all 4 tires be the same.

 

wal mart will do anything but make SURE they tighten up the lug nuts. ( from experience )