ErikAnderson Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Hey guys, I just bought a 84GL in great condition for $300, it died on its owner two weeks ago and he did not want to mess with it. It was his daily driver and pretty well maintained for 10+ years. I got a few days to troubleshoot it at his house before I need to tow it, and since it's on the bottom of the island and I live on the top, I'd rather not mess with that. Basically I have a list of things I'm going to check and I was hoping that you folks could either correct my troubleshooting, or add new things on. Symptom: While cruising down the road the car lost power, prior owner cruised it downhill to his destination. He tried to compression start it with no joy. Car has a full tank of gas. He did not mention any abnormal sounds. Prior troubleshooting: New battery, Coil, and Dist cap. Currently: The vehicle will crank but not start. Prior owner mentioned that it started up once for about five seconds and then died. My Plan: .5) check all fuses 1) Spray starting fluid into intake, if car starts up and dies, its a fuel problem 2)check fuel, remove fuel line, turn on accessory (I don't need to crank right?) and see if fuel comes out. 3) Spark test a plug... I'm going to be working on this alone so I'm thinking take some jumper cables, one end of cables to plug, one end to neg term, and crank???? I'll try to record it with my phone... Got any better Ideas? To me this sounds like a fuel issue, I'm not all that smart but it sounds like a fuel pump took a crap. I know I'm missing a lot here... Do you folks have any other quick tests that I can do in this guy's driveway? I'm keeping notes and would love to drive this baby home, she's a sweet little girl. Oh, the wiring to the battery looks like poop. But I guess doing a spark test will let me know if I need to go that direction. Thanks a lot Erik Edited March 7, 2015 by ErikAnderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Before you do anything, lets start with the basics. Suck Squish Boom. Timing and spark. I honestly dont remember what these have on them, if it is a timing belt thats where I would start. If that checks out then I would make sure the ignitor works and there is spark. Also check for fuel flow. and that the anti dieseling solenoid (if carb'd) opens up when energized. For it to just died while coasting, I would suspect a timing (belt) issue. Edited March 7, 2015 by nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 No timing belt. fuel flow and spark are what I'm most concerned about. It takes 2 min to make sure your fuel pump works, I got a manual next to me, I'll see what can be said about the anti dieseling solenoid. Thanks a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Cool. its been ages since ive seen one or had one, but i know i had a maddening no start condition we couldnt find on mine eons ago. We couldnt find it until the part went bad and it was the ignitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indrid cold Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Congrats on the 84 for $300. If there is spark/then no spark it could be the ignition module in the distributor. Sounds just like my 84 did when it died. It's just easier and cost effective to replace with rebuilt distributor if it turns out to be a no spark issue, if everything else seems to test good. (coil was another probable issue, so ditsy is probable.) If there is no fuel, then the fuel pump is probable, fuse, loose wire etc... $300 for a 84 roo, not running I would jump on that. You can do this. Just read up on some of the search topics. Bond with the roo. Edited March 7, 2015 by Indrid cold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) I have a working distributer on my other 84, an 84DL wagon. I'm 99% sure there is no difference, I'll take it with me. Funny thing is that the list on facebook was $300, then when I showed up he only wanted $250, at that point he said he would be happy with $200, I figured that $300 was way more than fair and that I'd be struck by a comet if I tried to twist this guy's arm. He said that he was considering sending it to the scrap heap. Edited March 7, 2015 by ErikAnderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper 157 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) Replacing the fuel filters might help things get flowing again. the two filters combined cost about $6 -$7 and can be replaced in a jiffy. Might not be the actual issue but might help. Good on you for saving a fellow 84 wagon. Edited March 7, 2015 by Sapper 157 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rain_man_rich Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 "My Plan: .5) check all fuses 1) Spray starting fluid into intake, if car starts up and dies, its a fuel problem 2)check fuel, remove fuel line, turn on accessory (I don't need to crank right?) and see if fuel comes out. 3) Spark test a plug... I'm going to be working on this alone so I'm thinking take some jumper cables, one end of cables to plug, one end to neg term, and crank???? I'll try to record it with my phone... Got any better Ideas?" Good plan. Personally I go straight for the fuel and spark. So I'd change it around to look like: 1 3 depending on what I found in 1 or 3: 2 if it starts with the starting fluid 4 (set #1 TDC and check location of rotor to #1 spark plug wire on cap.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 If it was me, rather than add possible screw up of a dizzy change and its timing, would just take to it with a pair of flat blade screwdrivers, one either side, levering off from dizzy body outer , to prise the dizzy interupter off and replace the module - #2 philips driver for its two screws@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Today was a bust. Here is what I did / learned. The plugs are getting a spark. I pulled plug 3 (pass side all the way back) I believe, I'm tired.... and after grounding the body to the vehicle I got sparks when trying to start. I got fuel past the filter in the engine bay, however I did try to start it by putting both starting fluid and a bit of fuel in the carb. I metered the primary and secondary sides of the coil, the one in the car was just a liiiiiitle bit low so I put in the one that worked just fine in my 84DL, no joy. I pulled the entire Distributer assembly and slid the working one from my DL inside making sure that the rotor was in about the same position, when It did not start up I slowly rotated the disty through it's range of motion while cranking. Oh, I threw a new / different alternator in at the end of the day just because I like cutting up my hands. I pulled the #3 plug again and added starter fluid directly to the cyl (not sure if this is a smart thing to do, but I was pissed, tired, frustrated) put the plug back in, tried to fire it up just to hear anything, no joy. I checked those fuse/wire things on the pass side of the engine bay, two red, one green. All ohmed good. The car cranks, the RPMs jump, I can feel the damn motor turning, I'm getting spark, I KNOW I'm getting fuel past the filter, I poured some starting fluid and later some gas (about a tsp...) down the carb.. Am I getting a weak spark? The spark was not bright balls-rump roast white, but I've never checked a spark like that before so I don't know what it should look like. It was purple, orange, white ish.... Though it was a very sunny day. I talked with the owner, the initial Symptom is as followed: While coasting along or under low power demand the car just turned off/stopped (not motion, but the motor activity) He coasted it to a parking spot, and after that only got it to run for about 30 seconds. What am I missing / doing wrong?!?!?!?!? Oh, the plugs were not overly wet.... I seem to recall that they kind of get that way when you're trying to do a lot of starting, maybe I'm just making that up?>? They smelled a bit like fuel though. I threw in a "working" plug from my DL that I brought with me into that same CYL I'd been messing with, no joy. I'm going to have to tow her home soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Rain man, I did not think of #4, I've never done that before so I'll have to check up on how to do that. It would be a good indication of whats firing and when right? Where should the position of the rotor be? That may sound like a really stupid question but I'm curious. Prior owner did mess around with the Disty earlier and maybe set it back together wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 About to head back out. No cell coverage out there, anyone have any other ideas before I go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 May be time for a basic dry/wet compression test. Also a real fuel pressure/flow test. Do you see any fuel being squirted down the throat of the carb when you push the throttle fully down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 I'll do a compression test at home. Can't rent a truck till Monday and if the compression is dicked she ain't going anywhere. Good suggestion though I'll check it. With the lid to the air filter off I can see fuel vapor puffing out of the carb/filter assembly when I crank it with the throttle fully down I put cyl 1 at TDC as indicated on the flywheel indicating a position of zero. The rotor inside the disty looks like it would have been touching or a little past the cyl 1 disty point. I put in new plugs and wires. I verified spark on the plug from the coil to the disty. It was super bright out but it looked like an orangish spark that pulsed along at regular intervals. When turning the engine with a breaker bar I order to get it at cyl 1 TDC it felt like quite a bit of resistance and then was al out zero resistance once it got close to TDC. I fact I overshot the mark and had to go back. I'm 100% out of my depth in this department. My knowledge of engine internals can be summed up by this: "lots of spinny bits move about in a reasonable amount of order". So I got no idea what a motor should feel like when you're tirning it aside from it should not be locked up.. I'm going to try to tow it in on Monday. At least it will be on my property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 "My knowledge of engine internals can be summed up by this: "lots of spinny bits move about in a reasonable amount of order"" Thats more then most. On the plus side this is a simple engine that is about as complicated as an air cooled VW engine, so the mechanical internal list of things that can be wrong is quite short. Timing gears do go bad, its rare but it happens. You can remove the valve covers and see if all the valves are moving. Is it full of oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 This may sound stupid, you prolly already have, but check the plug wires really good. At the disty cap and at the plugs. Couldn't get my Brat to start. Would crank and crank, flood out and/or drain battery trying to get started. Turned out ONE, yes ONE plug wire was fried at the cap. It's been years but I seem to recall the same thing happening on my '84 wagon, just at the plug end that time. Oh, and check for vacuum leaks. Kinda hard since you can't start it but look and makes sure lines are good/connected. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Heh, I did not check the oil.... Face palm... Gosh I gotta think it has oil. I'll check them valves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Also rare but not uncommon, if the rotor is attched by a set screw, make sure the screw is tight. The loose rotor can be another facepalm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Subaru nut: I bought new plugs today and made sure the gap was right. I took the wires from my working 84 DL along with me. I never thought of a vac leak, could something like that prevent a car from starting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Car is home and registered in my name. I go off to work in the gulf for a month-month and a half. If there are any big brain mechanics who want to make some bucks & beer when I get home I'd live your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 IT LIVES!!!! So here is what I think happened. Something related to the distributer took a dump initially. Dude tried to fix it and ended up hooking it up 180 out maybe? He then spent two weeks changing out nearly everything ignition related (i have three coils, two of them new in the spares kit) I get the car, look at the manual, look back down at the disty and think that everything is okay, when I DID give it a good look and check to see if everything was correct I understood everything I was seeing as correct. It was not correct, it was 180 out. Today with fresh eyes I went out to the garage and got it running in 30 minutes.... makes that $150 I spent on hauling it home yesterday kinda sting. Oh well, my 300$ car is actually a 450$ car. He had a PILE of spare parts like window glass and brake light housings and alternators, that he kept in buckets that filled with water. Nearly everything but the light housings are going in the trash. funny how things are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rain_man_rich Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 sweet! I forgot to mention. TDC on the compression stroke (blows air out the spark plug hole on the way up) Then look at the rotor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikAnderson Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) Hooked up the AC today, PO had the belt removed. It blows super cold, pretty impressive for a 31 year old car that was maybe not top of the line . I need a key ignition assembly. PO had the tumbler break inside and has been using a screw driver to spin the back end of it to run. I have two spares but one was in his water bucket and the other is a different style. After cleaning the car out I'm pretty sure it was used as a spider factory. It's mostly cleaned out now and I can move forward with a bit of minor restoration. Both rocker panels are shot. I'm a half assed welder so I guess it's time to start getting a bit better..... All in all I'm pretty thrilled about my 450$ car. 10 years I paid twice that for my 85 DL. it's interesting seeing them both side by side. The GL is better all the way around. They are almost different cars. Edited March 11, 2015 by ErikAnderson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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