afterbang Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I need to replace both the A/C suction and discharge hoses on my wife's 2003 Legacy. The 00-04 year range seem to have had issues with the crimps failing on the hoses and while I've known they've been slightly leaking oil out for a while, I've put it off and now the system isn't blowing cold anymore and the last recharge I did, even with replacing o-rings, lasted only 6 months. I am fully able and have the equipment to replace these hoses and recharge the system, but since the system has potentially been exposed to atmosphere, I would like to replace the receiver/dryer as well. Only problem is, the dealer retail on one is over $300. Does anyone here happen to have any experience with the cheap aftermarket ones that cost less than $20? This is not the way I usually like to handle repairs, but even at wholesale, the prices of both hoses I need is already like $250. Since the system wasn't actually ever opened, maybe I can get away with not replacing the receiver/dryer? My boss at the shop I work at says to just buy the cheap receiver/dryer and use dealer o-rings, but I have had a few Subarus where the A/C was non-functional from dried/cracked o-rings for long periods of time and just swapping them out and recharging the system did the trick with no ill effects. Any help/advice is greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) Subaru a/c systems are extremely robust, replacing the receiver/drier is way overkill and unnecessary. I mean it's nice and all to do it perfect, but I've drifted away from it as it's not worth my money or time: 1. Replace hoses 2. Replace any orings that are easy and you haven't yet. 3. replace schrader valves 4. Charge with 2 cans of refrigerant 5. drive 150,000 miles without issues. Done that countless times even on a bunch of Subarus. A 2003 with leaking hoses would be walk in the park. Do those 5 steps and another 150k here you come 6. unnecessary but might give you warm fuzzies: charge the system and at the very start of charging - open the other valve port to pseudo-ghetto-push some residual gases out. No need to pull a vacuum or use gauges - i have both but haven't used them in years. Would you like to buy them from me?! (just kidding). I do not recommend any of this on other vehicles, they may have more sensitive a/c systems and i'm not familiar with them, I only work on Subarus. So you may very well hear that's a very bad idea and I might agree. That's beyond my experience. But to that end - your boss is wise in recommending additional steps. I have worked on other manufacturers A/C systems and they seem to have more varying issues with A/C's than Subarus. Edited May 9, 2015 by grossgary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afterbang Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 I work on Subarus professionally and have the equipment at work, so I will be pulling a vacuum and using a manifold gauge set while refrigerent is added using a scale. But that is only bc I have these things available to me. My boss, is Rick (GeneralDisorder) and he's been pretty adamant about replacing the receiver drier, but I also agree with you that it's not like I had the system opened for any long period of time. I just don't want to replace a good working part with something inferior and the $12 receiver drier I found on Amazon wasn't the most confidence inspiring . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Look at it this way. If you spend $12 and it gets you through this summer so you can do it next year would that help or hinder you? If that would help you and make you feel better than I would spend the $12 and replace it next summer if need be. Personally I would leave it if the system was blowing cold before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 One thing you may want to check into, is to google "hydraulic hose fabrication." Having a shop make a couple of custom made hoses will cost you far less then $250. There may even be a small fabricator near where you live, that will do a nice job for you. Usually a fabricator is located in a small industrial park, and sells their service to manufacturing plants having hydraulic equipment needing hose replacement. Also, heavy duty truck repair shops need hydraulic hose, so calling one of those shops may be able to refer you to a fabricator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hzimmerman1111 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I replaced the compressor only on my 2001 Outback 2.5 (290K miles) 3 years ago and not the receiver dryer. Made sure I had oil in there. There were no other leaks I had read and heard that you should have he system evacuated and refilled by a shop. This I did (cost ~$120), although I was tempted just to recharge it myself. Noted the grossgary post where he did this auto parts store recharge. I have another A/C repair in progress right now on 2000 Jetta and tempted to go the auto parts store route again. Any other opinions on shop vs. do it your self recharge? After all it's only 135 Freon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Your poor soul, you work for rick! just kidding, i occasionally talk to him! not counting a rebuild/wrecked Subaru, i've never replaced a receiver/drier even on ancient 80's and early 90's stuff, and i've never had a issue. all of my daily drivers with 180k, 190, 200k, 230k had open A/C systems like years and 100,000 miles ago and are all trucking just fine with never an A/C issue - and i have no idea how many others i've worked on. i've not replaced anything but orings and refrigerant. Rick knows his stuff and has the liability of multiple staff and customers, and customer "diagnosis", and a revolving door of them at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Your poor soul, you work for rick! just kidding, i occasionally talk to him! not counting a rebuild/wrecked Subaru, i've never replaced a receiver/drier even on ancient 80's and early 90's stuff, and i've never had a issue. all of my daily drivers with 180k, 190, 200k, 230k had open A/C systems like years and 100,000 miles ago and are all trucking just fine with never an A/C issue - and i have no idea how many others i've worked on. i've not replaced anything but orings and refrigerant. Rick knows his stuff and has the liability of multiple staff and customers, and customer "diagnosis", and a revolving door of them at that. Your post reminds me of the old days, when cars had R-12 systems. Then R-12 was discontinued, so systems were converted over to R-134A. All the conversion talk then was the new R-134A refrigerant molecule was smaller then the R-12 molecule. As a result, shops were selling the need to change all rubber A/C hoses to new advanced hoses that would not leak refrigerant. Well best I could figure out, the hose change talk was mostly BS. I converted many a system over to R-134A with insignificant hose leak, that I could determine. Seems like changing out the dryer is still part of that same BS talk. Sure the dryer may pick up a tiny bit of moisture from the atmosphere, but not that much during a hose swap out. It is not like atmospheric gas, and moisture is rushing into the A/C system, just because the system has been evacuated. I opened up my system a few years back to replace a metal hose that had developed a pin hole leak. I replaced the metal hose, and O rings, then simply charged up the system with 2 cans of R-134. My system still pumps out really cold air with no system issues. Conclusion.......replacing the dryer is not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 (edited) You only really need to replace the drier if your compressor decided to self destruct or it has been opened to the air for ages, as the drier also acts a filter and would catch all the metal. I would call around about having the hoses made for less then what the dealers cost. Edited May 9, 2015 by nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBIEBOARDER Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Great thread so far. I have a follow up question about a 1999 legacy outback with 194xxx, I bought it 4k ago with non-working ac. I have charged it with the parts store stuff with leak detector and it worked for about a day. Obviously there is a leak, but I can't find it.... Should I do the procedure above: hoses, orings, charge, profit? Colorado gets hot in the summer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 If the system has been empty for a long period of time and you live in the south (very humid) then it's a good idea to replace the drier. The drier collects moisture before the refrigerant goes into the expansion valve. If there is moisture in the charge it can ice the valve and block the flow. I've used the < $20 driers on three of my vehicles and haven't had any issues. Subieboarder, check the lower corners of the condenser for corrosion. This is the most common place I've seen for AC leaks other than the compressor o-rings. As above, if the system was empty for a long period of time its a good idea to replace the drier as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 If the system has been empty for a long period of time and you live in the south (very humid) then it's a good idea to replace the drier. The drier collects moisture before the refrigerant goes into the expansion valve. If there is moisture in the charge it can ice the valve and block the flow. I've used the < $20 driers on three of my vehicles and haven't had any issues. Subieboarder, check the lower corners of the condenser for corrosion. This is the most common place I've seen for AC leaks other than the compressor o-rings. As above, if the system was empty for a long period of time its a good idea to replace the drier as well. My 99 Outback developed a pin hole leak in the medal tubing that connects at the bottom of the condenser. The leak was just above where it threads into the condenser. Rather difficult to see, as it is at the very bottom of the condenser on passenger side of the car. Subieborder, since you had a leak additive put in your system, you should see leak detector stains at the fitting, if yours is leaking there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Great thread so far. I have a follow up question about a 1999 legacy outback with 194xxx, I bought it 4k ago with non-working ac. I have charged it with the parts store stuff with leak detector and it worked for about a day. Obviously there is a leak, but I can't find it.... Should I do the procedure above: hoses, orings, charge, profit? Colorado gets hot in the summer.... 1. make sure it's not overcharged 2. if it leaked out in a day - then it's presumably a sizable leak that should show signs of leakage - are you seeing any leakage anywhere? it would be nice to verify that. 3. if the hoses are dry as a bone then they probably aren't the culprit 4. if the vehicle was ever in an accident the front condenser is prone to having been punctured/bent/damaged - inspect it and the surrounding area thoroughly. 5. if the hoses and condensor seem to check out - replace the orings and shcrader valves. the orings on the a/c compressor fail at a high rate, the rest at a low rate. i presume due to vibrations, greater heat cycling due to proximity of engine and dynamics of being on the compressor - an overall more stressful enviornment. *** the orings on all older Subarus are by now dried and hard as a rock instead of pliable like a rubber oring should be. very common issue. schrader valves have a seal at the base, good idea to replace if you can. then yes - simply add two cans and you should be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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