heartless Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 9 hours ago, sirtokesalot said: Would there be any bad effects of using the pistons and rings from my current engine in another engine? I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to get a quiet running engine from what I have. If I pull the pistons and rings from my current engine and say put them into the low compression engine then use my current engines heads and new head gaskets. Would there be any bad effects of using old rings and pistons? it is my understanding that it is the pistons themselves that cause the knock.. short skirts allowing them to basically "flop" back and forth in the cylinder.. so you probably would not gain anything by reusing them.. but, I am not a real mechanic, i just play one in my driveway.. =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 16, 2019 Author Share Posted November 16, 2019 47 minutes ago, heartless said: it is my understanding that it is the pistons themselves that cause the knock.. short skirts allowing them to basically "flop" back and forth in the cylinder.. so you probably would not gain anything by reusing them.. but, I am not a real mechanic, i just play one in my driveway.. =P i honestly think its a rod knock in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 2 hours ago, sirtokesalot said: i honestly think its a rod knock in the making. When I read the updates this morning, I wondered if it’s an oil pressure issue that’ll result in bottom end knock. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 16, 2019 Author Share Posted November 16, 2019 7 hours ago, el_freddo said: When I read the updates this morning, I wondered if it’s an oil pressure issue that’ll result in bottom end knock. Cheers Bennie this engine does kind of have a hidden history i left out. the car belonged to my mom before me. 2 years ago the head gaskets let go and it mixed coolant in the oil started to overheat then got towed to my moms house where they then moved it 2 or 3 times in the yard never drained the oil/coolant mix and it sat for nearly a year before they towed it down to me to change the head gaskets last year. the cars done about 7000 miles since then and the knock has been slowly presenting its self. i think this is the reason behind it all. i have a possible plan c as well now too. i have the forester block with low compression but on top of that i have a friend whos looking to replace his wrecked subaru .... he still drives it but its technically totaled anyways hes going to look at a rust free car today that needs a transmission and i told him if he buys it ill do the work of swapping the transmission from his old car and whatever engine he wants to keep ill make be in the new car but i want the extra engine for payment so that might work out for me but i wont know till later if he went and got the car or not. im likely going to go out to my friends house later after work and pull the heads off that forester block i have to check the internals and see if its a worthy swap. the forester block is low compression but did run without knocking last time it was in a car it just ran poorly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) Well that forester engine turned to hell. I tore it down and got the pistons out to find rod play in all of them. Not alot but still there. We split the case and pulled all 4 rod bearings they were pretty much toast but the crank is good and measures in spec and the rods measure in spec. So if I keep going this route it's new rod bearings new rings and new head gaskets as well as all the small o rings and crap to reassemble the case.i will also not use any other part of it besides the block. The heads were full of sludge the oil pump sludge oil pan sludge starting to wonder if I should bother with this block or not. I mean the clock looks good and is in spec but where els could sludge be that I cant clean out? This is not the engine that was in my car. This is another engine I had sitting around from a 2001 forester I parted and scrapped. I might just spend the time and redo this block. At least I'd know it would be like new inside when I finished and shouldn't have to worry about engine issues again for a long time. Edited November 17, 2019 by sirtokesalot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 so when ordering rings and rod bearings ... do i just order the standard size? the oversize ones im guessing is for if u have to get the crank redone or use bigger pistons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 On 11/16/2019 at 5:53 AM, sirtokesalot said: this engine does kind of have a hidden history i left out. the car belonged to my mom before me. 2 years ago the head gaskets let go and it mixed coolant in the oil started to overheat then got towed to my moms house where they then moved it 2 or 3 times in the yard never drained the oil/coolant mix and it sat for nearly a year before they towed it down to me to change the head gaskets last year. the cars done about 7000 miles since then and the knock has been slowly presenting its self. i think this is the reason behind it all. i have a possible plan c as well now too. i have the forester block with low compression but on top of that i have a friend whos looking to replace his wrecked subaru .... he still drives it but its technically totaled anyways hes going to look at a rust free car today that needs a transmission and i told him if he buys it ill do the work of swapping the transmission from his old car and whatever engine he wants to keep ill make be in the new car but i want the extra engine for payment so that might work out for me but i wont know till later if he went and got the car or not. im likely going to go out to my friends house later after work and pull the heads off that forester block i have to check the internals and see if its a worthy swap. the forester block is low compression but did run without knocking last time it was in a car it just ran poorly. that's kind of rude not to include the whole story of the car from the start.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 3 hours ago, sirtokesalot said: rings and rod bearings ... do i just order the standard size? Get one new compression ring and check the end gap of the ring at different depths of each cylinder. If the gap is beyond the limit in the FSM you would have to see what is available. Also you would have to have each piston knurled to make up the extra space. Back in the early 60's I had the tool to do that. For the bearings they make plastigauge to determine the tolerance for oil. You would also need one new bearing to check it with. Or see what you have with the old bearings. Without doing that you don't know, so it is hit or miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 14 hours ago, Rampage said: Get one new compression ring and check the end gap of the ring at different depths of each cylinder. If the gap is beyond the limit in the FSM you would have to see what is available. Also you would have to have each piston knurled to make up the extra space. Back in the early 60's I had the tool to do that. For the bearings they make plastigauge to determine the tolerance for oil. You would also need one new bearing to check it with. Or see what you have with the old bearings. Without doing that you don't know, so it is hit or miss. so the stock sizes wont be correct then? the rods have no scoring and the crank has no scoring the rod bearings seemed to be the only worn part on the crank. why would the pistons need to be knurled? i would be using the pistons that came out of the engine and what do u mean with the rings? im sorry i just dont understand it. i am mechanically inclined but this would be the first engine ive torn this far down and done rod bearings on. i have changed rings before but on smaller engines and i just ordered the ones that were for it. so far i havent ordered anything yet for the forester block. i tried a valve adjustment today on the engine in the car now and it did not change anything. my mechanics stethoscope showed up today as well and i can say the sound is definitely coming from the block and i can hear a distinct metal on metal knocking sound from the block very faintly still but its in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, sirtokesalot said: so the stock sizes wont be correct then? Don't know unless you measure. If the crank journals look good, then more than likely they are, but you should use plastigauge with a new bearing to see what the oil clearance is. Compare that to the what is in the FSM. See picture for ring end gap. The pic is for an EJ22. See what the end gap should be for yours in the FSM. The rings wear and so do the cylinders. Knurling is cutting a diamond shape into the outside of the piston with sharp wheels to give it a slightly larger diameter to prevent piston slap. It depends on how much the cylinders and pistons are worn, if the pistons need this or not. The wheel is like the cutting wheel in a tubing cutter. When it cuts into the metal it causes the metal on each side of the wheel to raise up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 25, 2019 Author Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) well today we put the engine back together with standard sized bearings. i used the engine that was in the car. we tore it down sunday and it was in very good shape no visible wear everything we could measure was within spec not sure what was knocking we suspect it was from a lack of oil due to a partially clogged oil passage in the crank for cylinder 1. the rod bearings were lightly worn but i dont think should have caused the knock. i reused the pistons if it still knocks now its piston slap. i wont know for sure until wensday when the head gasket set arrives unless it arrives early. engine has new rod and crank bearings new piston rings and every seal on the block has been replaced. it should be basically a new engine. i might pull it again and pit pistons in it if it still does it but for now i want the car back before snow and ice comes and it should run fine and id feel better with it knowing everything inside is new. Edited November 25, 2019 by sirtokesalot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Sure hope it works out for you after all that TLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 26, 2019 Author Share Posted November 26, 2019 well heres my verdict. the engine rebuild did help it i no longer hear the rattly sound while accelerating but the knock still exists when cold. at this point i accept that the knocking im hearing now is piston slap as it quiets down now within a minute of running even at idle and is smooth and quiet after that so rebuilding it did help alot but still have bad pistons in it causing a slap when cold. i do believe there was something els going on besides the piston slap due to the rattling sound going away after the rebuild. i am happy with it now and at least have the peace of mind knowing there's nothing serious wrong in the engine at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted November 27, 2019 Share Posted November 27, 2019 Great. You did say one of the rod bearings looked worn, (lack of oil) it seems like that was the one making the noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirtokesalot Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 well they were all a little worn but nothing wild. only one of them was worn into the copper thogh but not very far so yes one was worn more than the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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