Valve spring installed upside down

[Step-a-toe]

2 hours ago, idosubaru said:

Yeah man I saw pictures online of them and another thread mentioning that many (all?) EA82's have them.   I'll check my stuff when I get a chance, XT6's are definitely single spring, maybe all XT's are an i've just done too many EJ's since then and have forgotten. 

My XT turbo 87.5 valve springs are inner and outer

[idosubaru]

21 minutes ago, Step-a-toe said:

Ido, when you said learnt the hard way about springs up the wrong way....what symptoms did you have ???

that wasn't me, that was the OP i believe. 

[idosubaru]

22 minutes ago, Step-a-toe said:

My XT turbo 87.5 valve springs are inner and outer

 

awesome, thanks for putting up with and pardon my confusion. i'll look at my stash. i guess it's been too long and seen too many EJ valves since then. 

[rickyhils]

1.) Valves and valve seats look to be ok . After some research it may well be that a backyard valve lapping [using a drill] has left three valve seats .009 deeper than that #2 exhaust valve seat. That is how much the straight edge test showed.  I will just run it as is. I won't be spending 150+ bucks at a machine shop at this point.

2.) After talking with Mizpah, it is possible that the four HLA on the left side have become stuck on the high side after all these years . And that could account for the louder [different] machine noise I was hearing. When squeezed in a vise they simply do not want to compress. So, I took apart one on those HLAs [compromising the retainer cap] and after cleaning out the bore with carb spray and using a wire to operate the tiny ball valve I put it back together and it worked nicely. But without proper tools to reinstall retainer cap I cannot use it as is.  So, I will pick the best four operating HLAs out of the old engine and install those. At worst, I can deal with any ToD that shows up. I will send those four HLAs out to Mizpah as they look like they were new when installed years ago.

Edited June 9, 2020 by rickyhils
add pic

[idosubaru]

woah, nice catch if that's what it is.  

i've had HLA's that wouldn't compress in a vice - I swap in used ones and i've bought from Mizpah before as well. 

[rickyhils]

i

27 minutes ago, idosubaru said:

woah, nice catch if that's what it is.  

i've had HLA's that wouldn't compress in a vice - I swap in used ones and i've bought from Mizpah before as well. 

The retainer cap on the HLA needs to be properly peened to be reinstalled, and I don't know yet how to properly do that. But go get an old HLA and pry that retainer cap off and you'll see what I mean. Just a little cleaning is like night and day. I used a piece of thin galvanized wire to poke that tiny ball valve just a little to let the carb spray in .

And, at the base of each valve spring there is a .050" insert [V.S.I. 203 Insert] that was not on the original old engine. I made some inquiries. The rebuilder was knowing enough to restore the spring tension after the valve grind. see pic.

So, I spent an extra 5 hours today just to replace a . . . (wait for it . . . ) a perfectly good head gasket! But I just had to know exactly what was up with those valves before moving on.

[rickyhils]

And I have  a Felpro permatorque gasket handy. And, since the head is OUT of the car, I can easy enough put the springs back on. I'll try for Right Side Up this time [bunched coils at the bottom] 

[Step-a-toe]

I have also pulled one of these HVLA apart and never to go back again

i always thought they had a rubber seal component, so was surprised

i am certain there must be someone in Australia to rebuild these, just never asked the right people

has got too expensive to send a family of these critters to US and back again

[rickyhils]

5 minutes ago, Step-a-toe said:

I have also pulled one of these HVLA apart and never to go back again

i always thought they had a rubber seal component, so was surprised

i am certain there must be someone in Australia to rebuild these, just never asked the right people

has got too expensive to send a family of these critters to US and back again

There has to be a way to carefully reshape that HLA retainer cap and then peen [or stake] the cap surround. 

[idosubaru]

4 hours ago, rickyhils said:

The retainer cap on the HLA needs to be properly peened to be reinstalled, and I don't know yet how to properly do that. But go get an old HLA and pry that retainer cap off and you'll see what I mean. Just a little cleaning is like night and day. I used a piece of thin galvanized wire to poke that tiny ball valve just a little to let the carb spray in .

 

I've done a bunch of them before as well.  I've had two that wouldn't compress in a vice - cranking down really hard. They would not come apart even with the retainer off they were immovable.  after soaking for days in various cleaners, diesel, riselone, soaked in everything people suggested and pried with heavy tools.  No movement.  They were seized and replaced. Obviously this isn't common and both of those came off of engines I know had bad headgaskets and overheated. 

1 hour ago, rickyhils said:

There has to be a way to carefully reshape that HLA retainer cap and then peen [or stake] the cap surround. 

If memory is correct most are brittle and very hard to reshape without cracking/deforming. I've had some go back together without issue, some imperfect, and some wrecked.  I did these decades ago when they were maybe more malleable. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by idosubaru

[idosubaru]

12 hours ago, rickyhils said:

There has to be a way to carefully reshape that HLA retainer cap and then peen [or stake] the cap surround. 

I’ve done it before and reused the caps. It’s been a very long time and I don’t recall specifics, but it didn’t require anything special or new tools or supplies.  I remember a few caps not being reusable, and installing one or two with questionable imperfect caps but they functioned fine.  It may have been easier years ago when they were younger. 

[rickyhils]

2 hours ago, idosubaru said:

I’ve done it before and reused the caps. It’s been a very long time and I don’t recall specifics, but it didn’t require anything special or new tools or supplies.  I remember a few caps not being reusable, and installing one or two with questionable imperfect caps but they functioned fine.  It may have been easier years ago when they were younger. 

I put a "stuck" HLA in a vise and carefully pried off the cap. The cap can be lightly hammered back in shape to use again. A 13mm deep socket taps it back on. A little careful peening with a very small punch can tighten the cap up a little better. I used a dulled large wood screw on the cap dimples and the soft metal didn't take much. That "stuck open" HLA now feels a lot better.

It was that little bit of corrosion [or just gummed up] at the inner piston that was stuck. Some needle nose pliers pulled it as there is inner hollowed out space to get a reverse grip.

The OLD (1991) HLA has a different piston bore size than the NEWER HLA. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by rickyhils

[rickyhils]

I have a new topic at under:

Engine cylinder head stains

[Step-a-toe]

When searching for HVLA online, some suppliers have a lifter that fits some US market made car and EA82

Down under we had GMH Camira that Nissan used their engines in Astra. I have been told by knowledgeable Subie mechanic that this engines lifter also fits. Might explain visual and other differences you point out