Scubasteve009 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) I’ve got a 99 Forester L. Car ran, shifted, did everything great but needed maintenance, I did head gaskets and all that that implies, fully rebuilt both front spindles sand blasted and painted everything I could, new front axles, new brakes all around and also painted all of those components to stop the dreaded undercarriage rust... I put the motor back in and it lasted 50 miles and the trans seemed to have went out. Wouldn’t pull sometimes, torque bind, flashing AT fluid light. so I acquired a 50k trans from a guy online, bought a new torque converter, new seals front and rear, fluid, spin on filter and thoroughly cleaned the inner filter of all debri and stuff (there wasn’t much at all) and put the new’er trans in place... 60 miles down the road, same symptoms along with some white smoke out of the exhaust and what seems to be some valve rattle..? (Still questioning that)... did some online research and did the secret handshake and I’m getting a code 79. No codes on the scanner, Only engine codes are the pO420 O2 sensor code.... anyone have any ideas as to what in the world I need to do..??? The AT Oil Temp light comes on and flashes at cold start, problems are either at cold start or shortly after and the FWD fuse does absolutely nothing..... any help would be hugely appreciated..!!!! I’ve got too much money in this car to scrap it and running out of money for another transmission or a trans rebuild..... And she’s too nice to give up on... The only rust is a tiny bit in the pinch mold under the rear bumper (besides the normal driveline scale I haven’t addressed yet)...... Thanks, Stephen..... Edited August 17, 2020 by Scubasteve009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) is the car new to you? tires all the same? size/brand/model? they need to be, also near each other in wear. does the smoke from the exhaust smell like coolant? (sweet-ish, like toasted marshmallows.) or fuel or? is coolant level OK? ALWAYS check the radiator for actual coolant volume anytime there is even a hint of a problem. The overflow bottle does need to be maintained near it's normal level, but is a risky indicator of coolant volume. how does the trans fluid look? many folks have trans issues get better with fresh fluid. Doing 3 drain/fill cycles, with maybe a little driving in between, gets you around 85% new fluid. any dents in the trans pan? does the car car jerk/buck in tight circles on dery pavement in the same way regardless of FWD fuse use? Edited August 18, 2020 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stelcom66 Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 I wish I could help technically, but just want to say from the photo I'd agree that car is too nice to give up on. Really nice wheels - and is that a stock Subaru color? I don't think I've seen it before. Makes me miss my 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said: is the car new to you? no i have had it a while, about a year before i started doing any work to it... tires all the same? size/brand/model? they need to be, also near each other in wear. yes all same size and wear... does the smoke from the exhaust smell like coolant? (sweet-ish, like toasted marshmallows.) or fuel or? not sweet smelling and i just noticed a big puff the other day. could have been a one time thing... is coolant level OK? ALWAYS check the radiator for actual coolant volume anytime there is even a hint of a problem. The overflow bottle does need to be maintained near it's normal level, but is a risky indicator of coolant volume. coolant has always stayed good, even before i did the head gaskets. it always sipped from the overflow bottle... how does the trans fluid look? many folks have trans issues get better with fresh fluid. Doing 3 drain/fill cycles, with maybe a little driving in between, gets you around 85% new fluid. trans fluid is all new, i let it set without a pan for a few days to drip as much as possible before installing. it looks like its fresh from the jug on the stick and smells new as well... any dents in the trans pan?no i tripple checked that as well... does the car car jerk/buck in tight circles on dery pavement in the same way regardless of FWD fuse use? no jerking or anything, it just binds and doesnt want to roll freely.... answered questions in quote...... Edited August 18, 2020 by Scubasteve009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 35 minutes ago, Stelcom66 said: I wish I could help technically, but just want to say from the photo I'd agree that car is too nice to give up on. Really nice wheels - and is that a stock Subaru color? I don't think I've seen it before. Makes me miss my 2002. yes its all stock except stereo and wheels.... its had an older respray once upon a time but it matches factory paint perfect.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 seems like a trans swap may be in order. check car-part.com might want to locate a soob-friendly shop to confirm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) ive got the old duty c solenoid out of the old trans. the clutch pack looks good but the solenoid is ohming out at 13.3.... ive seen online it should be 12.5, ive yet to add power to see if it clicks or not... also on the old trans when i pulled the back chunk off there was a small metal tube that just fell out. i seen where it goes, and whan i put it back in its spot it seems to want to stay.... if i do another swap it will definatly be 5 speed...!!! Edited August 19, 2020 by Scubasteve009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Scubasteve009 said: ive got the old duty c solenoid out of the old trans. the clutch pack looks good but the solenoid is ohming out at 13.3.... ive seen online it should be 12.5, ive yet to add power to see if it clicks or not... also on the old trans when i pulled the back chunk off there was a small metal tube that just fell out. i seen where it goes, and whan i put it back in its spot it seems to want to stay.... if i do another swap it will definatly be 5 speed...!!! yeah, opening a whole different can of worms with those words.. LOL But yes, very nice looking Foz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, heartless said: yeah, opening a whole different can of worms with those words.. LOL But yes, very nice looking Foz whys that, everything from the same generation car will work except the cross member and drive shaft. thats the only two parts ill need from a forester of my body style... plus it deletes the tmc and all of those problems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Cross members are different from Auto to Manual trans and the drive shafts are different lengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 1 minute ago, lmdew said: Cross members are different from Auto to Manual trans and the drive shafts are different lengths. thats what i said in the previous post... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 The FSM says between 10 and 17 ohms for the duty C solenoid. One of the manuals calls it Duty Transfer Solenoid. Go here and download the FSM in one zip file. https://sl-i.net/FORUM/showthread.php?18087-Subaru-Factory-Service-Manuals- Or, you can go here and download individual sections of the FSM. (click Parent Directory to go back) http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/Forester/1999-2002/Service Manual 1/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) On 8/19/2020 at 11:53 PM, Rampage said: The FSM says between 10 and 17 ohms for the duty C solenoid. One of the manuals calls it Duty Transfer Solenoid. Go here and download the FSM in one zip file. https://sl-i.net/FORUM/showthread.php?18087-Subaru-Factory-Service-Manuals- Or, you can go here and download individual sections of the FSM. (click Parent Directory to go back) http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/Forester/1999-2002/Service Manual 1/ thanks , its reading 13.3 Ohm's.... hopefully the TCM will fix it today.... its definatly working because when power is added it clicks open and i can blow through it... so its a good replacement i can use for the one in the current trans if its bad... Edited August 21, 2020 by Scubasteve009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 well the TCM did not fix the issues, still binding... guess i need to make the decision to replace the transfer duty solenoid and clutch pack or start looking for a manual swap.... id hate to waste money on the solenoid and clutch pack for it to still not work... but im clueless as to what else could be wrong.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Read the AT codes - they will not show with a generic OBDII scanner like check engine light codes. If the AT light is flashing it is giving you codes that very well may tell you what's wrong. If you *absolutely, positively* have identical issues with the trans and the old one, then it's likely some other issue. I would wonder if you have damaged wiring somewhere - if the car sat for a year it could have rodent damage. I've seen mice in rural areas and chipmunks in urban areas both chew through wires. There aren't too many places immune. It's not common but I've seen it multiple times, even under passengers floor carpeting in an outback where it didn't seem there was room for a mouse to even get to it. I had traced it to a broken wire and pulled up the carpet and there it was - one chewed through wire. Splice and done. Follow the wiring all the way from the engine bay to the TCU and see if anything is damaged. If this is the case you should be able to trans every wire from the trans to the TCU and find out which one is bad. I think you would have incurred other issues installing it - but could it be the wrong year transmission? If you unplug the TCU or trans connector in the engine bay does it drive fine in 3rd gear? It'll be slow accelerating and no TC lock up but I'm wondering if it'll run similar to a properly working trans with the TCU disconnected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, idosubaru said: Read the AT codes - they will not show with a generic OBDII scanner like check engine light codes. If the AT light is flashing it is giving you codes that very well may tell you what's wrong. If you *absolutely, positively* have identical issues with the trans and the old one, then it's likely some other issue. I would wonder if you have damaged wiring somewhere - if the car sat for a year it could have rodent damage. I've seen mice in rural areas and chipmunks in urban areas both chew through wires. There aren't too many places immune. It's not common but I've seen it multiple times, even under passengers floor carpeting in an outback where it didn't seem there was room for a mouse to even get to it. I had traced it to a broken wire and pulled up the carpet and there it was - one chewed through wire. Splice and done. Follow the wiring all the way from the engine bay to the TCU and see if anything is damaged. If this is the case you should be able to trans every wire from the trans to the TCU and find out which one is bad. I think you would have incurred other issues installing it - but could it be the wrong year transmission? If you unplug the TCU or trans connector in the engine bay does it drive fine in 3rd gear? It'll be slow accelerating and no TC lock up but I'm wondering if it'll run similar to a properly working trans with the TCU disconnected. never heard of driving with trans plug diconnected...? all the wiring looks good, it sat inside most of that time and i was doing ll the brakes and rebuilding the front spindles so i dont believe any rodents got into it and ive seen no signs of rodents either.... im doing the checking process from the fsm now , its a slow process but im trying... its definetly code 79 from the secret handshake method... ... and about the correct year trans i have no clue... was supposed to be correct but who knows... oh well back to ohming wires and stuff..... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Scubasteve009 said: never heard of driving with trans plug disconnected...? Doing that puts the trans in Limp Home Mode. It will give you 3rd and Reverse (if both are mechanically ok). That is the default mechanical when there is no electrical control. In the FSM, Automatic transmission and differential pdf file, page 98 has the procedure to check for Trouble Code 79. I saw in one manual that the TCM can send a varying amount of voltage 0 to12 or 12 to 0 volts to the Duty C Solenoid to gradually vary the amount of pressure. So, it is not always instant on or off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) Trans drives in purely mechanical mode with plug disconnected. If it’s undrivable and problematic that way then the trans very well may be hosed. Code 79 - good job. That’s the only code? Follow the FSM procedures for tracing that. That makes me wonder - Duty C issues only impact AWD drive, not shifting and drivability. You can completely cut the wire to the Duty C and the cars drive perfectly 100% fine and it’s not even noticeable except binding. This is terrible suggestion that only a very few people would do but if the FSM tracing doesn’t show anything I’d be tempted to cut the duty c wire and see how it drives. Then I’d install a 4WD switch at that splice to control AWD for off-road and snow Something I typically do anyway on my DDs id guess You have more than just a basic Duty C issue. Edited August 23, 2020 by idosubaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 8/17/2020 at 2:47 PM, Scubasteve009 said: the FWD fuse does absolutely nothing..... If you have a fuse in the FWD fuse holder, pull it. One of the terminals goes to ground. Check it for 0 ohms. With the key on, what is the voltage on the other terminal? The wiring diagram doesn't show the voltage, but that wire goes to the TCM. Since the TCM is a solid state device, I would expect the voltage to be between 5 and 12 volts. As you know, another wire from the TCM goes to the Duty C Solenoid. Since 2 different trannys have the same problem, I would check continuity on those wires per the code 79 diagnostic. Keep in mind that if the wire going from the TCM to the Duty C Sol. is shorted to ground somewhere it could burn out that output transistor in the TCM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 I replaced the Tranfer duty “C” Solenoid.... all is good now...!!! Drives and shifts fine...!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, Scubasteve009 said: I replaced the Tranfer duty “C” Solenoid.... all is good now...!!! Drives and shifts fine...!!! Awesome!! I was under the impression you already changed that with another trans. Sorry I missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, idosubaru said: Awesome!! I was under the impression you already changed that with another trans. Sorry I missed that. No, and the very first transmission did go completely bad, it was the one before this one that had the same issues that I assumed was another bad trans... both where 50k transmissions and I was told the first one I got was out of a 30th Anniversary OB Wagon... but I’m not positive it was so..??? This trans was 52k on mileage and out of a 99 Forester L , same as mine... Edited August 23, 2020 by Scubasteve009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Glad that fixed it. It probably took less time to change the Sol. than checking ohms on the wires and connectors. I'm curious, what is the ohms on the Sol. you took out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubasteve009 Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Rampage said: Glad that fixed it. It probably took less time to change the Sol. than checking ohms on the wires and connectors. I'm curious, what is the ohms on the Sol. you took out? OL on the pin inside the connector, but probing on the backside of connector it was all over the spectrum... I couldn’t get a steady reading anywhere... I even took a small connector file and cleaned the pin inside but it still wouldn’t get a reading... always open line, but also the pin did not feel loose as if it was broken.. it’s weird... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Open coil, that's good. The ohm meter reading will bounce around with all that wire on only one probe of the meter. Hold just the positive probe tip with your finger and thumb and watch it. Well, at least you have a spare TCM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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