2012 Legacy repeat headlamp failure and blowout

[Daddybob]

I'm trying to find out if there is a simple way to stop this repeat failure of headlamps.

I believe this is called a 5th generation Legacy. I ran across some information a couple of years ago that said that these cars will actually cause the headlamps to explode, both at the same time, and that has happened to this car. At the time it was suggested that the problem was caused by the wiring being in series and that there was a recall and or a kit from Subaru to change the headlamp wiring to parallel. If anyone knows anything about that please point me in the right direction because I can't find it again.

Everybody already knows these lamps are difficult to replace. Someone has suggested that I need to be using gloves on the lamps. Okay I failed to do that before but I won't fail to do it again.

Can anyone tell me if changing over to a LED bulb will help this problem? I'm not looking for brighter lights. I don't care if the wiring isn't good enough to do everything that an LED bulb is supposedly capable of. I don't care about anything except not changing these confounded bulbs all the time. As long as the brightness will be as good as an oem bulb then that is fine by me.

[1 Lucky Texan]

one thing that may help, refresh any/all ground wires. There may be some low in the front that are important for lighting.

There is a lampp that ends in -LL for long life, perhaps a Philips??? or panasonic????, any way, when you buy bulbs , all of them that claim to be brighter, will have shorter life spans.

if any of the bulbs on your 2012 are 9005 or maybe 9006? there is a 'hack' to use HIR bulbs. I dunno if you will get more longevity though. here's one link that may explain it; https://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/150621-how-headlight-bulb-conversion-h11-h9-9005-9011-a-4.html

[forester2002s]

I doubt that the original Subaru design was for 2 headlamps wired in series.

That would be huge safety risk, since both headlights could fail simultaneously while the car is moving.

[Daddybob]

26 minutes ago, forester2002s said:

I doubt that the original Subaru design was for 2 headlamps wired in series.

That would be huge safety risk, since both headlights could fail simultaneously while the car is moving.

That did happen many months ago. Thank goodness it wasn't at night. Both bulbs actually crumbled. I honestly don't know if it happened while it was moving, but it sure happened.

I was reading about that very thing and thought Naaahhh... and then found them like that. 

I can't find that information again. But I know that they said the problem was series wiring and the only real cure was to convert to parallel. This supposedly was only done on Legacies for about 3 or 4 years in the early 2010s. I find it incredulous myself.

[Daddybob]

2 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

if any of the bulbs on your 2012 are 9005 or maybe 9006? there is a 'hack' to use HIR bulbs. I dunno if you will get more longevity though. here's one link that may explain it; https://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/150621-how-headlight-bulb-conversion-h11-h9-9005-9011-a-4.html

Yep, 9005. Thanks, I'll take a look at that.

[forester2002s]

5 hours ago, Daddybob said:

..But I know that they said the problem was series wiring and the only real cure was to convert to parallel...

If two bulbs were wired in series, across a normal 12V supply, each bulb would only be getting 6V.  These would be special bulbs.  And if they were then converted to the usual parallel arrangement, each would see 12V and would immediately blow. Poof!

Much more likely is that you have a grounding problem somewhere in the bulb harness.

[Daddybob]

9 minutes ago, forester2002s said:

If two bulbs were wired in series, across a normal 12V supply, each bulb would only be getting 6V.  These would be special bulbs.  And if they were then converted to the usual parallel arrangement, each would see 12V and would immediately blow. Poof!

Much more likely is that you have a grounding problem somewhere in the bulb harness.

I think you're probably right. Like I said, I was incredulous myself when I read that claim. Somebody got the cause wrong.

The problem still remains though that these cars can blow both highbeam bulbs at once and when it does they actually shatter. It can actually blow the rear bulbs at the same time. This model still used filament bulbs in the rear.

Now here's why I keep asking about LEDs but I haven't gotten a straight answer yet...

LEDs draw much less current. I've rewired trailers with them that were giving grounding problems and blowing fuses in the towing vehicle. Those problems disappeared because of greatly reduced current draw.

Will the same effect apply to LED headlamps?

Most LED users are only interested in appearance and don't seem to really understand this concept. As long as I get decent usable light at night then that's all I care about, along with the fact that I'm trying to stop changing bulbs so often.

[Daddybob]

BTW, in case I failed to mention it, both high beams have got extra grounding wires on them already. A Subaru mechanic did one of them and I did the other one.

[idosubaru]

1. Was the car ever wrecked, even lightly?

2. has it ever had rodent damage (this is not uncommon)?  If it’s around farms or food (kids, let’s, urban areas flooded with rodents) - this becomes more probable but it can happen anywhere with mice  

3. That custom wiring needs checked.  Stock subaru wiring is robust and rarely problematic. There are of course very specific outlier models/years - it should be easy to find out if yours is because they stand out. Most 80s Subarus have all original stock wiring because Subarus are stout....except stereos lol

Please don’t hear me criticizing - electrical issues that end up being caused by past electrical work is very high percentage causation. I’ve done it myself and fixed it on other peoples cars 100 times.  It’s nearly ubiquitous and I’ve heard “it’s impossible for that to be it”....and then it is exactly that.  that step can’t be skipped online with a car we can’t see and know nothing about. 

4. Are there 10s of thousands of drivers that do *not* have this issue in 2012?   I think the answer is yes. If it’s not yes then the fix and answer to all these 100s of thousands of fault 2010-2012s would be obvious and well known.  I don’t think that’s the case so I wouldn’t immediately jump to “My car verified that the Subaru wiring is universally bad”.

5. there are good conversion kits for headlights. GD - user general disorder - has recommended some he uses which means he’s installed hundreds of them. I’d find his post about the brand he uses and go with those. 

- I currently have a 2012 Outback parked in my driveway right now. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by idosubaru

[Daddybob]

@idosubaru

1. No.

2. No.

3. Outlier I think. But I just can't find that info again.

4. Agreed, but again I think I've got an outlier. Never seen anything like this, and I'm an old guy who ran a business with lots of trucks, and I put four kids through driving. Seen a lot of crazy stuff in vehicles. Never seen exploding headlamps, and sure never seen two at once.

5. I'll look him up. Thanks.

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

If the lenses allow water in, that would certainly be bad.

is the charging systems OK? what's the voltage at idle, when revving ?

is there any aftermarket gear in the car? remote start or CB radio, etc.?

Is the car used for jump starting some other equipment?

[Daddybob]

2 minutes ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

If the lenses allow water in, that would certainly be bad.

is the charging systems OK? what's the voltage at idle, when revving ?

is there any aftermarket gear in the car? remote start or CB radio, etc.?

Is the car used for jump starting some other equipment?

 

Lenses appear dry but this can be a terribly wet/humid place. This is probably complicating the problem including complicating the grounding problems.

Ok, charging system, glad you reminded me. The positive post on the battery on this car keeps getting a tremendous build up of corrosion and it needs to be cleaned right now. Since this is not a common problem with my other vehicles, I figure something has to be going on with the charging system although it seems to be fine. There are no other symptoms of a charging problem, but I know how dreadfully sneaky modern alternators can be with built-in voltage regulator circuitry.

No aftermarket electronic gear and no jump starting. 

This car isn't actually mine, it belongs to a woman friend. She lives several miles away. She has to drive it for work everyday. So I don't get all the time I need to check things over on it.

[idosubaru]

How often are the bulbs blowing and is the woman’s sons best friends changing it for her or is someone who knows what they’re doing installing it?  I think you installed it so should be all good, just checking.

If you suspect the circuit then testing would be preferable.  look at the wiring diagram for the front headlight and see what shared wiring exists between both fronts.

1. see the FSM continuity or resistance tests for the bulb pinouts.  

2. test the alternator output 

How do you know there’s no rodent damage?  I’ve seen obvious damage, huge nests, rodents in the car - and I’ve seen wires buried under carpet and fenders with no nests smells or signs until hitting the wires with a multimeter and tracking down nothing but chewed wiring. 

Doesn’t really matter - if the headlight wiring is damaged and tested, the damage will be found no matter what the causation is. 
 

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

sounds like a charging issue - the build-up on the post is most likely due to the battery's electorlye being stressed/boild and out-gassing too much.

there are 'load boxes' and newer electronic gadgets that can help simulate loads on the system and measure voltage etc. Probably no charge to test it at local parts store (go midweek if possibble when they aren't slammed for time.)

 

IF you do need an alternator, come back here and ask about the best way to get one. Most here would advise to AVOID typical parts store rebuilt units.

[idosubaru]

Okay I saw that other thread you referenced about the stalk and switches. You seem to suggest that moving the stalk sometimes made a difference?

If so maybe the issue is in the stalk or steering column area?

 

[Daddybob]

On 4/25/2021 at 12:13 PM, 1 Lucky Texan said:

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Daddybob
Deleted, duplicate post

[Daddybob]

Okay here I am again. I'm starting to figure this out.

1. Grounding is most likely the issue. Although extra work has been done in this regard, I have seen where I can do better and will do so as early as possible.

2. Only the right bright was out this time and it was not exploded. Fortunately that's the easiest headlight to replace on the vehicle and it's been done for now because I had to get this thing working ASAP, because I've got to drive her a long distance to have surgery. BTW I took care not to touch the bulb.

3. It never had anything to do with the multifunction switch on the steering column.

4. Battery has been cleaned. Fumes seeping out the caps are the most likely cause of the excessive corrosion. Probably the only cure is a better battery because this is an El Cheapo. Until then it's just going to be a matter of keeping the terminals clean.

5. LEDs and HIDs are not the answer.

6. I have been using Sylvania basic bulbs. This one is a 9005. Does anyone have opinions about a better bulb? 

[idosubaru]

4 minutes ago, Daddybob said:

Okay here I am again. I'm starting to figure this out.

1. Grounding is most likely the issue. Although extra work has been done in this regard, I have seen where I can do better and will do so as early as possible.

6. I have been using Sylvania basic bulbs. This one is a 9005. Does anyone have opinions about a better bulb? 

1. Explain how you see you can do better? What did you see?

6. I would guess whichever bulbs stay the coolest or last longer (more robust/forgiving).  I think that’s sometimes the basic low end bulbs as the brighter ones can be hotter and/or not last as long   But I’m not a bulb hobbyist 

Yes I wouldn’t do a bulb conversion on a vehicle that’s suspect of having wiring, or other, unknown issues. 

[Daddybob]

2 hours ago, idosubaru said:

1. Explain how you see you can do better? What did you see?

6. I would guess whichever bulbs stay the coolest or last longer (more robust/forgiving).  I think that’s sometimes the basic low end bulbs as the brighter ones can be hotter and/or not last as long   But I’m not a bulb hobbyist 

Yes I wouldn’t do a bulb conversion on a vehicle that’s suspect of having wiring, or other, unknown issues. 

 

1. Although I soldered the extra ground wires into the main ground wires, I put an aluminum eye crimp fitting on the other end and zip-screwed it to the painted inner wheel well. Those aluminum crimp fittings on copper wire will corrode and fail here quickly in this humidity. I need to use a soldered copper eye and ground it to the battery negative clamp.

6. Yup, not a hobbyist, totally old guy pragmatist. Your reasoning sounds good; now I wonder if Long Life bulbs last longer from being cooler?

[Daddybob]

Update. My parts guy told me to put dielectric grease on on the bulb contacts. He says it's fixing other premature burnout problems in some other vehicles here. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Daddybob

[Numbchux]

These were covered under an extended warranty. Give your local dealer a call. I don't know if that warranty is expired, but if not, you may be able to get them replaced for free. Also, if you can produce a receipt for when you bought aftermarket ones, you can get reimbursed for it.

 

I've heard so many times that these were problematic. But I've never heard anything more than speculation on why (and therefore what the solution is).

 

Yes, do not touch the glass on a headlight bulb. The oil from you fingers can cause the very thin glass of the bulb to break when it gets hot.

LEDs will reduce the electrical draw, so will not be effected if there's an issue with the wiring. They will also not be effected by any moisture that might get into the lamp, etc. if that's the issue. You do have to be careful, as changing the type of bulb can have a drastic effect on the light pattern. It also might require disabling daytime running lights (on my '00-04 Outbacks, the DRL turns the low beam bulb on at a lower voltage, and putting LEDs in cause them to flicker badly).

[Daddybob]

1 hour ago, Numbchux said:

These were covered under an extended warranty. Give your local dealer a call. I don't know if that warranty is expired, but if not, you may be able to get them replaced for free. Also, if you can produce a receipt for when you bought aftermarket ones, you can get reimbursed for it.

 

I've heard so many times that these were problematic. But I've never heard anything more than speculation on why (and therefore what the solution is).

 

Yes, do not touch the glass on a headlight bulb. The oil from you fingers can cause the very thin glass of the bulb to break when it gets hot.

LEDs will reduce the electrical draw, so will not be effected if there's an issue with the wiring. They will also not be effected by any moisture that might get into the lamp, etc. if that's the issue. You do have to be careful, as changing the type of bulb can have a drastic effect on the light pattern. It also might require disabling daytime running lights (on my '00-04 Outbacks, the DRL turns the low beam bulb on at a lower voltage, and putting LEDs in cause them to flicker badly).

 

Second owner, may not qualify for extended warranty; closest dealer is an hour drive one way; owner's life is a full plate for next 3 months (so is mine).

DRLs on this car are separate bulbs inside high beam reflector, thank goodness.

The lenses are fogged on the inside, gonna need replacement before next fall. That will give me time to learn more about possibly replacing them with LEDs, along with any pattern changes.

Definitely interested in LEDs if not too complicated or costly just because of lowered current draw.

Thanks!

 

[Numbchux]

1 hour ago, Daddybob said:

 

Second owner, may not qualify for extended warranty; closest dealer is an hour drive one way; owner's life is a full plate for next 3 months (so is mine).

DRLs on this car are separate bulbs inside high beam reflector, thank goodness.

The lenses are fogged on the inside, gonna need replacement before next fall. That will give me time to learn more about possibly replacing them with LEDs, along with any pattern changes.

Definitely interested in LEDs if not too complicated or costly just because of lowered current draw.

Thanks!

 

Don't need to be the original owner. As long as it's not salvage. But, probably not worth the drive for headlight bulbs...

 

I've used drop-in LED "bulbs" in several applications with good results (brighter, but without being any more obnoxious to other vehicles, I've been on the receiving end of all of our vehicles' lights). But, being that it's not what the optics were designed for, every combination should be carefully tested, and aimed (I install one LED and compare the 2 patterns against the side of my garage).

[idosubaru]

3 hours ago, Numbchux said:

Don't need to be the original owner. As long as it's not salvage. But, probably not worth the drive for headlight bulbs...

What he said. It is 10 years old and far away so maybe not a good fit.  But they do address older vehicles sometimes depending on the issue. Might be worth a call or stop in if you’re ever out that direction in the future. I’ve seen 10 year old multiple owner subarus repaired free by the dealer before.  Legacy dash, legacy front coils, and ABS relay are examples I recall personally. Of course they might not either.

Doesn’t it seem like they’d do more than a bulb change?  If they install a bulb then the next time you change bulbs yourself - you’re right back to where you are now. Seems like if they’d want more longevity than that. That would irritate customers more than help.

Voltage conditioners are designed to prolong bulb (and other devices) life and fidelity.  Long haul trucks have used them to increase bulb life.  The chief fatigue happens during voltage irregularities - start up, shut down, other devices with start up loads (compressors, etc).  All that to say - if you see any flickering or other devices causing unexpected noises or symptoms that might indicate load changes you may want to take note. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by idosubaru

[Lightning Racer]

I'm guessing that the problem is similar to what Toyota had with the 2010-2011 Prius headlights: voltage too high at the bulb due to larger than ideal wire in the headlight harness. (Maybe the same supplier for the Prius/Legacy headlight harness?) The fix for the Prius, which had an extended warranty, was to add about 1 meter wire length to the original headlight harness to cause the voltage to drop closer to the 12V nominal at the bulb:

My Toyota Prius 2010 caught fire | Page 5 | PriusChat

Looks like Subaru is replacing bulbs for free for 10 years, and you can apply for reimbursement:

MC-10182590-9999.pdf (nhtsa.gov)

Microsoft Word - snet_announcement_template.doc (nhtsa.gov)