April 9, 200619 yr ok, we have an electronic engineer saying it's an electronic design problem and a mechanic saying it's a carbon? build up on a stiky valve. any body want to take bets on who is correct???? which solution cost less? Count me in.
April 10, 200619 yr it doesn't seem like it would be a electrical design problem since if it was the problem would probably occur a lot earlier in the life of the car, on the other hand carbon building up usually comes with age and explains why its happening when the car is older. What would be interesting is if the electrical engineer would post his fix since I'm 100% positive I could find someone to understand it if not myself.
April 10, 200619 yr Indeed, there are some here with good electronic skills along with mechanical skills.
April 11, 200619 yr Well my last post seems to have "lit the blue touchpaper"! Firstly, I'd like to give credit to sea#3 for determining that the Jideco relay was a source of problems in this area. I've now spent many hours upside down under the dashboard of a Subaru and I've got to admire the fault finding tenacity of a person who found this one. I'd be happy to take my car to such a person - they are few and far between down this way. As for "calling ya out" - not so fast buddy! Secondly, I'd like to point out that I didn't resolve this problem "yesterday" and then test it with a "quick blip around the block". I fixed the problem 2 months ago and because it's such an intermittent problem I've done as much testing as possible to ensure that my fix is as close to 100% as possible. My first fix was to actually modify the guts of the ECU computer so it wasn't so susceptible to "electrical noise". This fixed the problem, but I figured that telling the Subaru world to rip out their ECU computer and start hacking at the circuit board was probably going to cause more problems than it fixed. But it caused me to go looking for where the electrical noise was coming from - this is when I discovered the wiring fault. I then designed the MKII fix which was a combined electrical filter and relay replacement box which plugged into the Jideco Ignition relay socket. This plug-in fix also needed additional changes to the wiring loom under the bonnet (hood) to fix the wiring fault. I then went and spoke to my local Suby wrecker (a nice guy and very helpful). Together we decided that asking someone to climb under the dashboard and remove the Ignition relay and then plug a cable into the now empty socket would be like asking your mother to replace a gudgeon pin on the Space Shuttle - it wasn't going to happen (but, then, maybe your mother is into that sort of stuff). Current plan is:- My Suby wrecker is currently cutting a wiring loom out of a wreck and once I've got this loom in my workshop I will be able to work out the easiest place to tap into the wiring to accomplish all these things... 1) Fix the wiring error. 2) Filter the power to the ECU computer 3) Bypass the troublesome Jideco relay. Once I've figured this out, in the words of that famous Austrian guy (ooops, I meant American guy) "I'll be back".
June 17, 200619 yr Your kit or Plans. I do work on electical Equipment. Do you remember Wire Wrap Tools? Well my last post seems to have "lit the blue touchpaper"! Firstly, I'd like to give credit to sea#3 for determining that the Jideco relay was a source of problems in this area. I've now spent many hours upside down under the dashboard of a Subaru and I've got to admire the fault finding tenacity of a person who found this one. I'd be happy to take my car to such a person - they are few and far between down this way. As for "calling ya out" - not so fast buddy! Secondly, I'd like to point out that I didn't resolve this problem "yesterday" and then test it with a "quick blip around the block". I fixed the problem 2 months ago and because it's such an intermittent problem I've done as much testing as possible to ensure that my fix is as close to 100% as possible. My first fix was to actually modify the guts of the ECU computer so it wasn't so susceptible to "electrical noise". This fixed the problem, but I figured that telling the Subaru world to rip out their ECU computer and start hacking at the circuit board was probably going to cause more problems than it fixed. But it caused me to go looking for where the electrical noise was coming from - this is when I discovered the wiring fault. I then designed the MKII fix which was a combined electrical filter and relay replacement box which plugged into the Jideco Ignition relay socket. This plug-in fix also needed additional changes to the wiring loom under the bonnet (hood) to fix the wiring fault. I then went and spoke to my local Suby wrecker (a nice guy and very helpful). Together we decided that asking someone to climb under the dashboard and remove the Ignition relay and then plug a cable into the now empty socket would be like asking your mother to replace a gudgeon pin on the Space Shuttle - it wasn't going to happen (but, then, maybe your mother is into that sort of stuff). Current plan is:- My Suby wrecker is currently cutting a wiring loom out of a wreck and once I've got this loom in my workshop I will be able to work out the easiest place to tap into the wiring to accomplish all these things... 1) Fix the wiring error. 2) Filter the power to the ECU computer 3) Bypass the troublesome Jideco relay. Once I've figured this out, in the words of that famous Austrian guy (ooops, I meant American guy) "I'll be back".
June 18, 200619 yr Yeah Randy, you're right - it's time for an update... OK, we've now got 4 FixKits installed (including my original). We've got two cars fixed (mine is one - no problems for 3 months now). BUT, we've got two vehicles that are, say, 90% fixed. For normal driving the cars are running fine over terrain which they previously would have had the rough running problem. But, if the owners drive them up very long steep hills, they still fail sometimes (but they used to fail always - so we're getting somewhere). At the moment we are not sure whether the kit is not 100% effective or if these two cars have additional problems which the kit cannot fix (e.g. poor fuel pressure or faulty ignition components). Sorting this out is taking a lot longer than I had anticipated as both these vehicles are a long way from where I live (One is in another country). I have also had the pleasure to have been contacted by another EE who has been working on a 1991 Legacy and he's implemented the changes internal to the ECU, similar to those changes which I originally started with, plus one of my changes to the Injector wiring and he emailed me just today to say that his car is now running fine. So it would seem we're on the same path. I'm hoping to work with this guy to sort out some of the remaining problems (if they exist - at the moment I really don't know). Since my car is now working fine it's hard for me to visualise why the kit isn't fixing the problems in other vehicles all the time. What I'd really love is for some people with this problem who live in Sydney Australia (where I live) to email me and we can work together hopefully to nail this problem once and for all. Please email me at xxxxxx@iinet.net.au (replace the xxxxxx with pacman50 - just trying to avoid some of the spammers). One really strange thing is that I was walking down the street a few weeks ago and saw a guy getting out of what looked to be a 1992-1993 Liberty (Legacy) sedan. I asked him if he'd experienced this problem and he said "yes, it was quite annoying". I then offered to help him fix it and he said words to the effect of "Heck, no way! I just pull over, restart it and then it's fine. You might make it worse". I tried to point out that it's actually a serious safety issue when the engine craps out while you're being chased up a hill by a big truck and I would also do the work for FREE - but he didn't give a toss. The answer was NO. Amazing! I'll Be back again when I've got something constructive to say... Cheers, PacMan
June 28, 200619 yr Sorry Buddyepa, but I can't give you anything specific at the moment. However, I did get some news today from a guy that I've been collaborating with about the problem and I can say that it was very good news indeed. We will still need to do more testing and, since two of my test pilots are away for for a few weeks, this will take some time. I'm still looking for Test Pilots in Sydney, Australia. Come on guys, my cars now running fine - I need another broken one to work on locally. There must be hundred's of Liberty's in Sydney with this problem. PacMan
May 29, 201114 yr So what ended up happening with this? I hate it when people don't follow up threads, I've stumbled across this several years too late and I'm suffering this same problem and want it bloody well fixed. What ever happened to PacMan? He just vanished in 2009 by the looks of it.
May 29, 201114 yr It is interesting to read the postings again about this. I suspect some problems could have been solved by just cleaning the ground connections it the engine area which should help eliminate some of the noise problems that were found.
May 29, 201114 yr That's a fair point, I may just have to go over every single earth connection and make sure it's clean.
May 29, 201114 yr There have been others here that have cleared some strange problems after cleaning the ground connections.
June 5, 201114 yr Okay, just as a follow up, I'm pretty confident I've solved my poor idle problem. It was the Ignition Relay and I have come up with a solution where you can replace the Jideco relay with a pair of aftermarket relays and it seems to work nicely. I will write up a guide on how to do this and post it in a new thread so others can fix it.
June 14, 201114 yr Here's a link to the guide: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=123796
June 14, 201114 yr ya know, i bought a 91' legacy once for $200 cause it died on the guy and he had to have it towed home, it sat for 6 months or so before i bought it.. i got to his house, jumped it with my outback, and drove it for 60k miles and half ways across the country and never had a problem with it..
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