Tachometer Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 OK...this has been going on a long time now, and is keeping the car off the road. First problem...flashing dash signal, both front struts totally without air. First solution...disconnect height sensor from front passenger, flashing dash signal stops, compressor kicks in. Second problem....front passenger strut height sensor bad, airbag ripped, strut dead. Second solution...replace front passenger strut with used piece, no flashing dash lights, all seems well. Third problem...start car, compressor kicks on. Air getting to both front solenoids (pass and driver), but solenoids NOT opening. Other misc info...pressing "height" button on dash causes a solenoid to activate (I can hear it) but the cars height does not change. ...the status of the rear struts is totally unknown. Ride height seems pretty low back there, and there just isn't enough access to everything easily to tell if all is happy or sad. Summary...Should I just ditch the air stuff? Man...I'd HATE to do it simply because A) I've vested a lot of time and effort (and a decent amount of $$$) and It sure would be cool if I could get it to work. But...I could just yank "normal" struts off another car (my pick and pull nearly always has a donor or two...and it's 1/2 price tomorrow...) That would quickly and easily solve this whole problem, and get the car on the road. Will struts from similar year Subarus just pop right in? This is a 1986 GL-10 5-speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calebz Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachometer Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 Yes Dagnabit! You are supposed to say "oh no Tachometer, it is a simple system that can easily be made to work." :-p Bleah. Crap. Damnit. I sooooo wanted this thing to work. I'm sure the Subaru Gods understand that and will not punish me for giving up...right? They understand. I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 oh no Tachometer, it is a simple system that can easily be replaced with coilovers Take the opportunity this weekend to get everything 1/2 off -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachometer Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 Sigh! I knew the answer before I posted. It is a pretty no-brainer decision to make. I've driven this car twice since I bought it, and that was nearly 2 months ago. Oh well. Maybe someday I'll attempt to try it all again. But until then...it appears I'm getting new suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 How far from Rancho Cordova are you? Im sure there's a set there, and i'll be there Saturday morning. If you can make it when im there, you'll have someone to help pull the parts. 1/2 price weekend should be able to get you all the parts you need for under $100 -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Don't practice "scorched earth" when you remove them. Take your time and properly disconnect things, and then you have the chance to go back. Like I am going to do! The swap to steel prings is easy, but the ride just isn't the same. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachometer Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 How far from Rancho Cordova are you? Im sure there's a set there, and i'll be there Saturday morning. If you can make it when im there, you'll have someone to help pull the parts. 1/2 price weekend should be able to get you all the parts you need for under $100 -Brian Well the big problem is I don't know what the Big Problem is. When the car starts the compressor kicks in. When I disconnect the air lines going to the solenoids there is tons of air pressure coming out. But the solenoids are not opening. The compressor runs for about 10 minutes then shuts down, and I get the dash lights flashing indicating an error with the system. So I know the compressor is running. I know air is getting into the system. I'm pretty sure the replacement strut I used on the passenger side is OK (I know the height sensor isn't totally borked 'cause the system activates)...same goes for the height sensors on all 4 corners. But there are a couple other things that could be wrong here... A- Suspension ECU isn't happy B- There is a break in the wiring somewhere C- The height sensors in the struts are out of wack, but functioning to some degree D- Something else that I haven't nailed down yet. The thing I DO know for SURE is that the front two solenoids are not opening. That's either an ECU issue or a wiring issue. I can "force" the solenoids to open by grounding 'em however. What I don't know is the status of the rear struts. Rancho Cordova is an 80 mile drive. I'm just not sure what parts I would need to make it work at this point. Here is a quick list of possible parts... -both rear struts -both front solenoids -suspension ECU (under drivers seat) -air tank solenoid (just to be on the safe side) In theory all those parts combine with the parts I do have SHOULD make it all work. But if there is one thing I've learned about working on cars...is that "should" is horribly inacurate a judgement. Obviously I'm struggling with the decision to swap to "normal" suspension. I can't quite make up my mind here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubaruJunkie Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I'd suggest cutting the hassle and replacing it with coilover. If you repair the car with junkyard parts, you risk the chance of them failing again. You know 1st hand how reliable they are. Replacing it with new parts would cost more than a set of standard suspension. Ive never had pnumatic suspension, so i dont know what all the hype is about, but i know about all the headaches. -Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 I read the title of this thread and thought "yes". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Isn't the compressor an "on demand" thing? That is, the system should try to satisfy its needs from the tank, but when tank pressure is too low the compressor cycles on. If so, this would indicate that the system pressure is too low, or the pressure sensor is bad. If the sensor is ok and the pressure is low, either compressor is not working right or there is a leak. The fly in my reasoning is, what happens when the strut/shock does not reach its height? Does the system freak? Miscellaneous ramblings... more time to think tonight during my hours of mind-numbing labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachometer Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 Isn't the compressor an "on demand" thing? That is, the system should try to satisfy its needs from the tank, but when tank pressure is too low the compressor cycles on. If so, this would indicate that the system pressure is too low, or the pressure sensor is bad. If the sensor is ok and the pressure is low, either compressor is not working right or there is a leak. The fly in my reasoning is, what happens when the strut/shock does not reach its height? Does the system freak? Miscellaneous ramblings... more time to think tonight during my hours of mind-numbing labor. The system "wants" to fill the struts off the tank. The compressor runs when the tank is too low to fill the struts. So yes...you are totally correct. On top of that, the system "shuts down" (ie lights flash on the dash) when there is a fault. If you turn on the car and it flashes instantly...that means a height sensor is returning a reading that is "impossible". To troubleshoot that you disconnect the height sensors one by one until you disconnect the faulty one...at that point the dash won't flash. If, when you start the system, and it runs but nothing happens...it will eventually shut down (after 8-10 minutes) to prevent the motor in the compressor from burning out. Again the dash lights will flash...indiciating that the car did not achieve what the ECU wanted it to do. I had forgotten about that pressure switch. The symptoms here seem to indicate that the pressure switch is the issue. That makes some sense because it would be pretty nuts to have so many different aspects of the system fail instead of having just one part die. It could also be a problem with the solenoid connecting the compressor to the air tank as well. Hmmm...this may be a tough one to find though...We'll find out Saturday. That's why I post these things here...it's refreshing to get another opinion! Thanks for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 Tach here is a recent post on the new gen side that may yield some help, see tha last couple threads A.S.S. problems (Air Suspension System) my personal monkier for this system The FSM has an extensive section on trouble shooting this system including getting codes from it's ECU I have wiring and pin outs scanned if you need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLance Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 First off my answer would be no. I'm trying to unconvert all my XTs and my XT6. As in, I want to get them back on air suspension. I have the factory shop manuals that cover the system. Let me know if you want diagrams or anything... If you do decide to convert it to regular springs, could I somehow obtain your 3 front air struts? The ripped one, and the 2 "good" ones? I have other cars to drive while I get my air suspensions sorted out. I have 3 XT's and an XT6, and all are supposed to have air. One XT was converted, and dosen't sit right, the XT6 has air rear, and spring front, and the front is too low. Oh, and the compressor is missing off my red XT. I'd like your compressor too, if you convert it. Thanks! RedLance PS, I'd like that ripped one any which way, if I could. I'm researching some ways to use aftermarket air bags/springs in place of the $400 factory units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachometer Posted December 31, 2004 Author Share Posted December 31, 2004 Here are two really good PDF docs about the air suspension...this may be what you were refering to... http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/AirSuspenFall01.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/AirSuspSumm01.pdf Unfortunately the '86 is too old to display codes from the ECU without jumping through some hoops. However those hoops may come into play if I can't diagnose this @#$% thing. RedLance...these are all the "extra" things I have. Note: Extra currently, but I may need them eventually...but I doubt it. -(2) air compressors, one without dryer (I took it apart to see how it works...and all the little beads spread over the place. I have the black plastic dryer tank but not the matrix...the other one is complete) -(4) struts. Front Passenger = ripped bag, dead strut. When I go to the junkyard Saturday I'll know which ones are keepers and which ones are extra. The thing is...this car came with the A.S.S (I like that). I would much prefer to keep it that way. Sure coilovers would be easier on the mind and body, but man...it's SO COOL having air struts! I just hope it isn't pouring rain Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted December 31, 2004 Share Posted December 31, 2004 try checking all the o=rings, wiggle the lines and see if you an hear any air. pb blaster will rejuvenate o-rings as it says on the can. if the plastic prongs that hold the lines are too floppy try double stacking the the o-rings with extras. i did this to jim woods car and narrowed down all the leaks in the system, traced it to a hole in the airbag on the front strut. in this case the compressor ran constantly and put undue stress on a few alternators. if the hole was repairable i would have kept the system in place if it were my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachometer Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 Well...the junkyard run was pretty successful...so far. I've aquired... -air tank pressure sensor -air tank charge solenoid -suspension ECU -new drivers side strut (in EXCELLENT condition) I'm going to yank the pressure sensor and charge solenoid from my car and compare 'em to the ones I picked up...try swaping ECU's...and pray. I wish I had another damn day off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 2, 2005 Share Posted January 2, 2005 another thing to check, the compressor may function properly but it's possible for the air hoses to not be connected properly. the plastic fitment can crack and either come off completely or leak at the air compressor. so it will run, but it won't do anything. check all the connections at the air compressor, right where the lines meet the compressor you should see a plastic fitting sort of thing. make sure none are cracked. solenoids can all be tested - give them 12 volts and listen for them to click. do yourself a huge favor and replace ALL your orings while you're working on this thing. air tank, compressor, struts, solenoids, replace all the orings. i've never had much problem with my XT6's. i converted one years ago and will never do it again, i like the air suspension. i've had to replace one compressor in 101,000 miles on my current daily driver. other than that no problems. i think some of the other subaru air suspensions tend to be a little older than the XT6 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachometer Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 SUCESS!! Well...to a degree, but still...this is a good sign. From the junkyard I picked up... -pressure sensor (on air tank) -"charge" solenoid (on air tank) -suspension ECU -drivers side strut (in excellent condition) It's annoyingly rainy here so I am not going to swap out the strut right now. But I did pull my pressure sensor and solenoid off the air tank. The solenoid was very clean and nice looking...in better shape than the junkyard piece. The pressure sensor was coated with junk and looked awful. Granted the junkyard one didn't look that much better...but I took the junkyard piece, cleaned it up with some steel wool...and screwed it in. I jumped the car (yeah, battery dead...another thing for the list)...compressor kicks on, car RISES! You heard me...it freaking ROSE! All 4 struts filled up nice and tight, compressor even turned off WITHOUT giving me the dash light malfunction flash. I did notice that I am getting a little air leakage from the connectors (rain all over, everything wet, can see the bubbles)...and eventually the compressor kicked on again to re-fill the tank...but... WOO HOO! A postitive step! Now I just have to source the o-rings, swap out that drivers side strut, and that should be that. Of course there probably is some other issue that'll crop up...but for the time being, I'm a very happy Subaru owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 ...Now I just have to source the o-rings... I found some suitable ones at Home Depot in the plumbing section. Not Nitrile or Viton, but what do you expect for 25cents??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Dagnabit! You are supposed to say "oh no Tachometer, it is a simple system that can easily be made to work." :-p .... if you have the money to make it work New air struts aint cheap! Guess what used ones are going to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xtlover Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 I got a set of struts and coils off a 86 xt, i sent you a pm. Let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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