mnewman0 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I'm having a problem with my 96 Legacy. When I take a slow turn (like coming out of a parking space) very sharp, the car will jerk a bit, like it wants to shut off. Then, I straighten the wheels and it's fine again. Only seems to happen on very slow, very sharp turns. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 The dreaded torque bind. Do a search on it. Put a fuse in the FWD holder under the hood and if it goes away, you are now a member of the club. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewman0 Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 Looked in fuse box under the hood, but didn't see any labeled FWD. Do you know where it's located? Is is possible I don't have a FWD fuse? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Looked in fuse box under the hood, but didn't see any labeled FWD.Do you know where it's located? Is is possible I don't have a FWD fuse? Thanks! Manual or automatic transmission? Also, any mixed size tires on your car - or mixed new/old tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 OOps i should have asked if it was an auto or manual. Yes check to make sure all the tires are the same size and age. If its a automatic the fuse holder will be on the passenger side of the car, under the hood, all by itself. Automatics can suffer from torque bind, its not a problem in the manuals, asuming all the tires match correctly. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewman0 Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 It's an auto and found the fuse holder, looked at the labels, but nothing with FWD. Tires are getting old, but all are the same size and age. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storydude1 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Standing in front of the car. Under the hood on your Left side between the firewall, and the strut tower(strut tower being the thing with the BIG nut all by itself) Bolted to the back side of the strut tower will be a black rectangle that says FWD on it. Pull that cover off, and insert a 20 amp fuse. If the vibration goes away, you have torque bind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrongturninwv Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 The dreaded torque bind. Do a search on it. Put a fuse in the FWD holder under the hood and if it goes away, you are now a member of the club. nipper Torque bind ???? Was reading post cause wife has 96 Outback awd automatic with same problem, skipping on slow tight turns. New tiers new cv joints and front end alignment,still skips. So explain what torque bind is and how do you get rid of it. How will the fuse change help ?? wrongturninswv@wmconnect.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 do a search here on torque bind .... lots of posts about it, and you will learn alot more about it then us just summing it up here. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 yes i have torque bind. found in a search that it if it DID NOT go away with the fwd fuse in then the duty solenoid was bad. i'll try the fluid fix first but this binding is pretty bad. am i correct in assuming that the solenoid is in the transfer case and cannot be replaced without pulling the tansmission? is the part expensive? i know the labor is. also if pulling the tranmission that may be damaged , why not replace with good used? if there is such a thing. also my 97 obw has an indicator light next to the fog light switch on the dash. the manual say it will disconnect the tcs (traction control system) which comes on automaticaly every time the engine is started. mine does not seem to work and i get no tcs indicator light on the instrument display (as i should) when i turn the key on before i start it. any help? if the repair gods love me it's a loose wire... yeah right!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 ooo you have tcs? hehe im not crazy about TCS, gives a false sense of security on bad roads, next thing you know you have all 4 wheels pointing in the wrong direction (cars should not get belly rubs). A subaru is slightly underpowered and has great traction so the TCS may never really come unless your on ice. The problem is the vlace seat for the duty solenoid inside the transmission is not made with steel, it is aluminum. You have a fairly agresive problem, where the clutch plates may be fried too. The std first level suggestion is to have the tranny flushed and see if that clears it up. Since you have front tire wear, im suspecting that you may be beyond this point. The repair is that the y can replace the clutchpack, with a new designed valve seat so you never have that issue again. The repair from what ive seen is 800-1000.00, and its done. Why not replace the entire transmission? Good question. I am balancing that myself righ now. I am going to guess a rebuilt sooby tranny at 2000.00 ( I may be very off on this, check around). I have the feeling that you might have to look at this since its affecting the front wheels, usually its mostly the rear wheels when it first starts. They corrected the problem in 98, so it may be possible to get a used tranny from a 98 and be done with it. Again thats what im thiking of. I have 180K on mine and am nervous about a fluid change, but winter is coming and i need the AWD. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 slow down, clutch pack equals transfer case? sending power to the rear wheels. or is it inside transmission itself. i didn't think you could get some to open up a trans for less that $1000. long term, drive it like it is, sooner or later the trans will fail? i just got the car for a good price $2500 w/ 98k miles. the engine seems to have piston slap which does not go away after warm up . i expected to be replacing that (i have one attached to a bad trans wrecked.) but now i'm looking at the clutch pack. i think for $1k i'd go for it. also read that you don't want the timing belt to fail on the 2.5, very bad. is this true? it certainly isn't for the 2.2. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 OK go back and search the site for torque bind. The posts will explain the problem, as im not going to rewrite it here . The tranny does not come out for the clutch pack to be replaced. I have a written estimate here on my desk for 987.00 (in NY) to replace the clutch pack/awd unit its a few hours labor and the rest is the part. The estimate is a week old. I am not making this up when i say i am in the same boat as you. Yes timing belt going bad on a 2.5 is not a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Nipper, you say '98 is when the aluminum part (didn't know it was a seat for the duty sol C) changed to steel? That's good to know. I usually can't remember the details like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 hehehe when it comes to a 1000.00 repair i remember these things. Its also on a TSB someplace. The valve seat is aluminum. I think what happens (and im guessing from working with hydraulic airplane parts) is that the valve gets some gum on the seat so it doesnt fully seal (hence why flushing sometimes works). After a while the force of the hot tranny fluid starts eroding the seat and or the seal so it no longer seals. I am not sure of the actual construction of the c duty solenoid seat, so its just a guess. The Stainless steel seat resolves this issue as not being an easy place for the gum to stick too. The issue seesm to disapear after 98. They actually fixed it 1/2 way through 97, but its much safer just to say it was 98. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 how practical would it be to buy the used 98 tranny and just use the clutch pack. it may not save alot since the tranny may equal the new clutch pack, but you'd have the spare trany if you need it. or sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I think its alot easier just to swap the trannies. On the good news front. My car was doing the saem thing at low speed turns. I figured I would bite the bullit and take a chance on the trany fluid flush. While I was at said oil change place, I had them service the diffferntials too. Well After a 2 mile drive back home, the torque bind is gone . The transmission's hard 1-2 shift is gone too. The tranny fluid was dirty but not burnt. The front diff fluid was filthy, and the rear was fine. So hopefully for 170.00 i saved a huge repair. I still have a back injury so I was forced to pay somone to do it. With 180K on the tranny, you will all be the first to know if the tranny goes poof:banghead: . nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 congrats on you success. maybe there is hope yet. what i can't figure on mine is why i don't get the fwd light when i put in the fuse. could a bad tcm cause this problem? or would it cause lots more too. it runs great at speed on the road but it sure doen't like to turn sharp. what is the chance that a 95 clutch pack would work? didn't they change the trans mission in 96? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 It could be as simple as the bulb is burned out. in 97 1/2 they redsigned the trany, and all the replacement assemblies have the fix also. A bad tcm may cause it to happen, but you would be getting transmission trouble codes from the tranny temp light. Take a volt meter to the fuse holder with the car running and see if there is power on one side of it. If there is it may be that the light is out, or it may be that your unit is farther down the road of damage them mine. Do you notice a diffenrce in behavior with the fuse in it? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 no differance in behavior with fuse in. tires are not new but all are equal. this binding is much more severe than what was on 95 legacy. that was my first awd and i just thought it was normal. that is until the rear seal blew out. and it died. i just happen to have a junk 97 obw trans. (100k miles) that was pulled because it wouldn't drive any more. would the tranny failing ruin the cluth pack? regardless, i thought i'd look inside at the sol just to see what is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 The clutchpack failing can ruin the tranny itself, not the other way around. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Nipper, if the C solenoid is prevented from sealing - either because its bad,-( is it 'normal open or NC?) - or the seat is blocked/leaking, does that place the center diff in full 50/50 or in FWD? Another way of asking; if the fuse is in place, applying a constant 12V to the C solenoid,(right?) is it forcing the valve closed or open? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 hehe i dont know, ild love to take one apart and find out. I know putting the fuse in energizes the solenoid. I dont know if it goes closed or open, as it normally cycles. The longer the cycle the more awd from 90/10 to 50/50 split. Inserting the fuse places the car in FWD, or 100/0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 hehe i dont know, ild love to take one apart and find out. I know putting the fuse in energizes the solenoid. I dont know if it goes closed or open, as it normally cycles. The longer the cycle the more awd from 90/10 to 50/50 split. Inserting the fuse places the car in FWD, or 100/0. Legacy777 and the experiences of others seems to point to the fact that, when the torque bind symptom is elimintaed by inserting the fuse it at least confirms that the solenoid is working. I'd like to try to figure out if there is the possibility that, in the situation in this thread where the condition did NOT improve, means the C solenoid or its wiring/etc. could be bad. But, it may also mean that, if the fuse being inserted is supposed to close the valve, that gunk may be holding it open - and thus a flush of the tranny may be succesful. am I making sense? It just seems like we could put together a 'flow chart' for DIY attempted fixes or at least troubleshooting the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Well the flush is the cheap fix try. And it goes away quickly. Also its possible the gunk is getting in the clutchpack and making it bind. I'll hunt around the net, maybe i can find a good flow/power digram. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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