Steveman09 Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I just ordered Apexi's new S-AFC II Air/Fuel Piggyback Manangment System for the GL10, I was woundering if anyone has attempted this on a EA82-T Car before? I just wanna know if there are any supprises I'm going to run into and whatnot. I do plan on getting the car Dyno Tuned after the TD04 is installed along with the HKS Fuel Cut Defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkx Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 i think will and jwx have screwed around with these things before... how does this fuel cut defender work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4WDFrenzy Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I thought there was some talk a little while back about older subies not liking the SAFC II's, but maybe I'm wrong. I'll put it to you this way(and this is just my 2 cents), but you would probably pay alot less to get a MegaSquirt setup compared to the price of an SAFC II brand new. Plus, you have to add the fact that the MS is completely adjustable. Now if you are just wanting to add extra fuel, I'd suggest getting a Hobbs switch and a cold start injector from a wrecked Saab or Volkswagen and tee it into the existing fuel feed line. You might also want to look into a higher flow fuel pump or an adjustable FPR to supplement the extra fuel needed for the additional airflow of the TD04. But like I said, that is just my 2 cents. If you don't mind me asking, what kind of supporting mods do you have in place to assist the TD04? Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 i am curious how much he paid for the piggy back hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveman09 Posted October 18, 2005 Author Share Posted October 18, 2005 I got a really good deal on it, I only paid $175 brand new through a friend, I still do plan on a megasquirt system but I'm going to put it on my Acura Legend since that car will be pushing upwards of 400hp to the wheels with the GT35 Turbo, I think this S-AFC will do just find with the soobie since I'm not shooting for really high HP numbers, its going to be a daily driver and the TD04 really isnt that big of a turbo as most people think, my engine is allready fully built and ready to accept it, I'll be happy with 200hp to the wheels after dyno tuning on the soobie. My goal is to have it quick but reliability is the most important thing with this car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes200x Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 I hate to give you bad news but I could not get the super afc to function properly. The problem is that the super afc is only good for maf meter that go from 0-5v and the older subaru's go above 5v. It will work great until you get to about 4000rpm's and it will go lean because the super afc holds the output at 5v no more. Hey if you can figure out a way to put extra fuel in after this point it can act like a fuel cut defencer. Since it holds the output voltage at 5v it will not hit the fuel cut. I would recomend a air fuel meter to be hooked up in the car and watch it closely. I talked to a guy at apexi and he confirmed this. You can also look on the f&q section of their website and find similar information. I have had some luck with the hks super afr however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 hmm add about 80 more or so and tada megasquirt lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted October 18, 2005 Share Posted October 18, 2005 Not if you don't want to assemble it. I've been running a SAFC for sometime, and have noticed no ill effects. What year car do you have wes? Is it a flapper door or a hotwire MAF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveman09 Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 I hate to give you bad news but I could not get the super afc to function properly. The problem is that the super afc is only good for maf meter that go from 0-5v and the older subaru's go above 5v. It will work great until you get to about 4000rpm's and it will go lean because the super afc holds the output at 5v no more. Hey if you can figure out a way to put extra fuel in after this point it can act like a fuel cut defencer. Since it holds the output voltage at 5v it will not hit the fuel cut. I would recomend a air fuel meter to be hooked up in the car and watch it closely. I talked to a guy at apexi and he confirmed this. You can also look on the f&q section of their website and find similar information. I have had some luck with the hks super afr however. I did some research and talked to Rallitek (local subaru guys) And they told me that my HOTWIRE maf (87) uses 0-5v for the output, so I think it will be ok. Megasquirt is a cool thing but after reading, and reading, and reading and reading, it has lots of negative things about it, sure it can be had for around 200 bucks but this is NOT assembled, then you have to add up all the small parts to make it work, Assembled and ready to run you will be sitting over 300 easy. There are tons of connectors, wiring, hours and hours of trial and error to make it all work and I just can't justify all that work being worth it with my project goals. Then on top of all of it to make it really work good on a EA82-T car you have to convert the whole ignition to DIS and/or addon MSNS which is ALLOT more money. Then you have to go through all the hassel of making a map from scratch just so the thing can run. Why in the world would I want to do all of that for 200hp? Hopfully you can all see my point. I'm not knocking the megasquirt as I think its really cool and I DO plan using it on my Legend 400hp Turbo Project, but for my suubie it just isnt worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shadow Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 ... etc etc This information you have provided is wrong or misleading on some accounts IRT megasquirt, I will try to provide some more accurate information from my own experience. ... it has lots of negative things about it, ... You mention it has 'lots' of negative things and then list its price as the only qualifyier to this statement. MS-I costs about $145 shipping included un-assembled. Assembled units run $250. You are comparing the price to a cheap piggyback unit, which has no comparison to MS which is of course a full featured standalone management system. There is no standalone system that compares on this quality (price) alone. ...Assembled and ready to run you will be sitting over 300 easy. Not really. I have had MS-I on my RX daily driver rounding out 2 years now. I spent about a whopping $190-200 in total parts and misc gadgets. It took about 4 hours to install on the car, plus an hour or two to assemble the board. With some guidance an install could be cut down to about 2 hours or so. It will cost you over 300 if you buy the assembled unit, but yes, it costs money to pay someone to do the work for you. ...There are tons of connectors, wiring, hours and hours of trial and error to make it all work... As far as I know there are 5 connectors, and I used the relay board and the two stock engine harness connectors, only 2 extra connectors if you do the most basic install. As I stated the wiring, from a first-time-on-Subaru standpoint took about 4 hours for someone with moderate skill to do. After I hooked it up and told it what size injectors I have and set it up for the Subaru coolant sensor, it started up on the default map, all other settings being correct (or close) the default map gets you running quick. ...to make it really work good on a EA82-T car you have to convert the whole ignition to DIS and/or addon MSNS which is ALLOT more money. I still run the stock ignition to this day. It runs overall better than stock, and I consider that 'good.' To use EDIS costs about $40-60 and a few more hours of fabrication. MSNS costs $0.00 more than plain old MS. Will (WJM, or at least the guy from msefi.com that helped set his car up ) is our USMB pioneer running timing on the stock distributor as far as I know, and I doubt it cost him much if any extra to run with timing than the base MS-II setup either. Personally I think Will's way is the best way for your average EA82T guy to do ignition. Then you have to go through all the hassel of making a map from scratch just so the thing can run. Again, no. Once you tell the thing what injectors you have, set up your misc. settings as suggested in the manual, warmup, yadda yadda; it starts. Its not hard and takes about 5 minutes and a few cranks of the starter. If you want a base map that is already set up for positive pressure, get one of ours or make yourself one from the utility at megasquirt.info, it takes about 30 seconds. Then you tune. I know we have at least 4 MS'ers on here that I think are fairly happy with their systems for the price. I know Tex has run his SAFC for awhile now and I don't know if happy is the word he would use to describe that experience (Although prob. strongly affected by other factors). By all means, if you have (or cheap access to) the SAFC/FCD or any combo thereof, try it first, it is overall the simpler choice, although not in all cases would it be the cheaper alternative. So far I have not heard a true success story with SAFC but I would love to hear the first one! MS is a big leap for any first-timer to take. I had already done, or helped on, over half a dozen other installs before I ever touched my RX. As with many things, the experiences, difficulty, and value to each person are all relative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akwatercraft Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 wow great job i have a wagon i am doing the same mod to,, rebuilding a mpfi turbo and going to dual range 5 spd. i am a alaska firefighter so i need to get there in a hurry! billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveman09 Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 BTW with Megasquirt I was mainly referring to the MS-II and MS-I with MSNS and DIS conversion. Update: After doing some testing of my own with a voltage meter attached to the Hotwire MAF in my 87 GL10 I found out that it does indeed go over 5v under WOT on Boost! This is no good for the apexi since it only reads 0-5v max. I found Fuel Cut Happens at 5.9volts@11psi, Normal 7psi it sits around 5.7-5.8volts max. The EA82 Hotwire MAF's are 0-10v Mass Air Flow Meters instead of the conventional 0-5v units found on all other cars. I allready ordered the Apexi which just arrived after finding this out so I went ahead and sold it to my friend for him to use in his Mistubishi Mirage and I just ordered the E-Manage off Ebay got a really good deal on it and the guy is including the Injector Harness and Ignition Harness for only $250!!! I couldn't beleave this price since I have been surfing all day and the same setup runs 350give or take. I'm excited to get this thing installed in the soob and start making some dyno pulls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWX Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 E-Manage much better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myxalplyx Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 These threads always turn into a Megasquirt thread. If there is anyone in the Delaware Valley that can install and tune a Megasquirt so I would not have to tinker with it again (unless I change my modifications), then I would go for it. Otherwise, for a low tech person like me, this route would be a complicated and frustrating process. As for the SAFC, those people that have gotten it to run, I have two questions..... 1) What is your Sensor Calc set for?, 2) What is your Sensor Number set for? These where the only problems I had with trying to set an SAFC up for my XT6. It was a complete failure because I could not find the correct settings so I had to remove it. SubaruTex, can you help with an answer to those settings please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 http://www.diyautotune.com Assembled. We can make you a plug and play for your RX....I can give you a base map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveman09 Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 http://www.diyautotune.com Assembled. We can make you a plug and play for your RX....I can give you a base map. The MS-II assembled unit you list in there is like $410 does this come with the harness and everything needed to turn the key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 The MS-II assembled unit you list in there is like $410 does this come with the harness and everything needed to turn the key? harness is extra. You will need a PC w/stimilator to upload the basemap into the ECU.....or a laptop to do so. I do not work there, but I live 3.68 miles from the guy who built mine....we made the custom plug and play harness, then we installed it, and I tuned it on the Dyno at Top Speed, where I work. For the plug and play harness, you will need to supply a donor ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steveman09 Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 harness is extra. You will need a PC w/stimilator to upload the basemap into the ECU.....or a laptop to do so. I do not work there, but I live 3.68 miles from the guy who built mine....we made the custom plug and play harness, then we installed it, and I tuned it on the Dyno at Top Speed, where I work. For the plug and play harness, you will need to supply a donor ECU. So how much will it cost TOTAL for a MS-II ready to turn the key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 So how much will it cost TOTAL for a MS-II ready to turn the key? I would imagine ~$650. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myxalplyx Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I would imagine ~$650. This does not include the laptop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Ofcourse not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuclearBacon Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 ebay = compaq pentium II laptop = $150 - $300 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 ebay = compaq pentium II laptop = $150 - $300 for t3h w!n!!!1~one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 laptops with enough power to tune the ms systems are dam cheap megatune can theoretically run on a old 486 cpu and if your not afraid of wiring then you can ms for a lot cheaper like in the 250-280 range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4WDFrenzy Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Steveman09, keep us informed about the E-manage install. I am a bit interested to see the E-manage in action on a GL-10 or RX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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