HLA's and the 2.2 tick

[crws]

Well, having gleaned a wealth of info from the forum while being a silent member, I thought I'd pipe up and share my lifter success story with a 91 Gen 1 Legacy 2.2L Wagon/AWD/ABS/Auto.

This project had been my daughter's car, and always had been plauged by intermittent lifter noise. After t-belt, seals, oil pump swap with O-ring, VC gaskets, and H2O pump was complete, my last task was to address the tick. I used some gunk cleaner by Berryman Chemtool added to the oil, but when it made it worse, I hit the boards, accepted the ultimate solution and task at hand, went to Starbucks for a hot coffee, suited up for outdoor fun, and grabbed my 10mm tools. I dissassembled both banks, starting with the right side, and blew out all the passages of the rocker arms and shaft with compressed air, while paying special attention to the lifters one-by-one. I did not notice any with the typical spongy description or find plugged oilways as in many posts, however I popped them from the RA housing, blew out the housing, and blew out the lifter. There were 3 or 4 that had a bit of varnish on their sides I scrubbed off and blew clean. I depressed the ball bearing and pumped out the existing oil, then submerged them in fresh 10/40 and pumped them with the bearing depressed until I felt consistent resistance and no air bubbles. I filled the RA cup with oil and pressed the lifter back in it's original location. I used generous amounts of oil when reassembling, and had no major issues reinstalling onto the head(s). The whole procedure took me a little over 3 hours for both sides. I pulled the igniter and cranked the engine beyond the oil light going off for about 1 minute, then reattached the igniter and went for the start. I got nada. It spun without even so much as a sputter. I spun it some more, and more. On my 3rd or 4th spin, I finally got a tumble, just a bit faster than the starter. This went on for about 5 minutes, spinning about a minute at a time. I was just about to get discouraged when I got a bit of a cough, and a very rough idle that held for a second or two. The next spin it sputtered to life, and I held it at 2k for about 5 minutes. When I let off, it purred like a kitten. There was no trace of lifter noise, and the loping that accompanied the tick was gone. I let it warm up, then took it for a drive. What a difference! I was truly amazed at how much pickup it had (now like our other 2 Sub's), especially off a dead stop. I will know the true status of my efforts after an ice cold start tomorrow morning, but I must say I am cautiously optimistic it is cured.

Thanks to all for your input and the dedication of Legacy777 for sharing his excellent pics and SM pdf's. This board is great.

Craig

[canajun2eh]

Your starting problems were probably due to having flooded the engine.

 

You shouldn't need to disconnect the igniter and then crank the engine. There's no harm in just letting the engine run while the lash adjusters fill up with oil. Essentially, you already did that with the repair procedure you described.

[crws]

Didn't consider the flood- an update, however- still running quiet after 100 miles.

[AlpineRaven]

Thanks to all for your input and the dedication of Legacy777 for sharing his excellent pics and SM pdf's. This board is great.

Craig

 

Can you pass me the link of Legacy777's posting with pics etc.

 

Have ticking noises and its driving me up the wall!!

Thanks guys.

AP

[Setright]

To avoid firing up disconnect the CRANK SENSOR!

[Andyjo]

oh oh i want to do it! freaking ticks are making me go crazy!!!

pics would be awesome! maybe i'll do it later tonight

[Andyjo]

Sorry to bring back a dead post, but where are these pics & PDF's of Legacy777's? the tick just gets worse and worse in the cold, and i'd like to fix that sucker up. I've never played w/ the rockers before.. anything i should be carefull of? maybe clean the engine compartment 1st?

[Gnuman]

Andyjo, yes you should at least wash out the engine compartment to avoid getting any gunk inside the engine. I would also get new valve cover gaskets, and the washers that go on the bolts that hold it on. My procedure is only slightly different than the one crws posted: I flush them with carb cleaner to remove any varnish (using the procedure for filling them up with oil), then empty them before putting the oil in. to further protect the engine while you are working, cover the heads with a clean lint free cloth while you have the cam covers removed, and only work on one side at a time. Josh's site is listed in his signature, and can also be found by clicking on his name in the moderator's list. Navigate down to manual scans, and you will find the pdf there.

[illanrob]

Craig wrote this extensive lifter success story with a 91 Gen 1 Legacy 2.2L Wagon/AWD/ABS/Auto.

 

 

Question: Did you identify which head or which section of head was noisier whenever the tapping noise reappeared before starting this repair?

Plagued by intermittent lifter noise.

 

 

Question: You used the engine cleaner, refilled with new oil and filter and the lifter noise got worse?

Last task was to address the tick. I used some gunk cleaner by Berryman Chemtool added to the oil, but when it made "the lifter noise" worse.

 

Question: Below you are removing the valve covers and then removing both valve rocker assemblies using a 10MM wrench? Did you remove the 8 10MM bolts starting with the 4 in the middle upper left first, lower right, upper right and lower left last. Then the outer 4 bolts in the same order as above?

Using 10mm tools. I disassembled both banks, starting with the right side, and blew out all the passages of the rocker arms

 

Question: Used compressed air on rocker oil holes/passages?

and shaft with compressed air, while paying special attention to the lifters one-by-one.

 

Question: The spongy condition is from compressing the hydraulic lifter?

I did not notice any with the typical spongy description or find plugged oilways as in many posts,

 

Question: Did you remove lifters by hand or pliers? Did you removed the rocker shaft and carefully arranged all parts in order so that reassembly is in the original position? Was there less than a 4Mills or 0.1MM ( 4 one thousands of an inch or 0.1 MilliMeter limit, ) clearance between the 6 valve rocker arms and rocker shaft? Was this clearance measured?

however I popped them from the RA housing, blew out the housing, and blew out the lifter.

 

Question: You are using compressed air to push out oil out of the lifter? You are depressing the CHECK ball with what?

There were 3 or 4 that had a bit of varnish on their sides I scrubbed off and blew clean. I depressed the ball bearing and pumped out the existing oil, then

 

Question: You submerged the lifter in oil pressed down on the CHECK ball and compressed the lifter until no more air bubbles apeared? When you were done with the lifter did you compressed it to assure that it was locked?

submerged them in fresh 10/40 and pumped them with the bearing depressed until I felt consistent resistance and no air bubbles.

 

Question: You added some oil into the lifter cavity before installing and was there an O-ring in each cavity?

I filled the RA cup with oil and pressed the lifter back in it's original location. I used generous amounts of oil when reassembling,

 

Question: You didn't have a problem reinstalling the rocker arm assembly on the heads? Was there any damage/uneven wear where the cam rubs against the rocker arms? Did you tighten the 4 outside bolts first and 4 inside bolts last?

and had no major issues reinstalling onto the head(s). The whole procedure took me a little over 3 hours for both sides.

 

Question: The igniter is the ignition wire? Hence you are cranking the engine to build up some oil presure?

I pulled the igniter and cranked the engine beyond the oil light going off for about 1 minute, then reattached the igniter and went for the start. I got nada. It spun without even so much as a sputter. I spun it some more, and more. On my 3rd or 4th spin, I finally got a tumble, just a bit faster than the starter. This went on for about 5 minutes, spinning about a minute at a time. I was just about to get discouraged when I got a bit of a cough, and a very rough idle that held for a second or two. The next spin it sputtered to life, and I held it at 2k for about 5 minutes.

 

Question: After holding the RPMs to 2000 you let the engine idle normaly and the lifter ticking/tapping was gone?

When I let off, it purred like a kitten. There was no trace of lifter noise, and the loping that accompanied the tick was gone.

 

Question: The valve tapping was some how corrected, but did you find a specific problem? Has the engine been fine since then? Did you change the oil weight?

I let it warm up, then took it for a drive. What a difference! I was truly amazed at how much pickup it had (now like our other 2 Sub's), especially off a dead stop. I will know the true status of my efforts after an ice cold start tomorrow morning, but I must say I am cautiously optimistic it is cured.

Thanks to all for your input and the dedication of Legacy777 for sharing his excellent pics and SM pdf's. This board is great.

Craig

Robert Illan

Who may soon follow your steps on a '93 2.2L

[illanrob]

Used Engine Gunk engine cleaner in the oil, the motor at idle got really very quiet after 5 mins close to normal engine temperature. Sounded like a new engine. Then drained the oil for longer than normal to get most of the cleaner to drip out. Poured the same oil that I use on the '03 Baja 5-W30 Castrol GTX. This is a sludge inhibitor oil formula. The motor at idle is noticeably louder than with the cleaner in the crankcase. The loud tapping sound was gone once I drove on the road. I am aware now how much noisier the Legacy 2.2L is over the 03 Baja. I only use the Baja for long trips.

 

I have not seen in any of the 2.2L lifter discussion the O-ring that may be the seat or seal for the lifter. I have the '92 Legacy Service Manual and it clearly mentions to install the O-ring but doesn't say where.

 

Thanks for the extensive discussion on tapping lifters

 

Robert Illan

[SUBARU3]

Hmm....I'm going to watch this thread!

 

Todd