91' loyale Sub Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 I am having some problems I am hoping someone could shed some light on. I have a 91' subaru loyale which need a new harmonic balancer and timing belt aswell as bearings. The mechanic is estimating 850$ does this sound like a fair price. The car has 188,000 miles on it im thinking maybe i should just scrap it what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 "harmonic balancer" is either an obscure term that means nothing important, or the guy means to say that he is replacing your tensioners (long shot) - the "bearings" thing is also a bit vague - wheel bearings?? if so, they are ~$50 for the kit - and probably less than $100 for the labor - not all should need to be replaced, just the ones making noise either way, $850 is VERY high in my opinion given the job - parts (including tensioners) are less than $100, and the job is 3 hours or less labor - even if the guy is expensive ($60/hour) then the total cost should be around $280, maybe as high as $300 or $350 NOT $850 I'd shop around, a timing belts DO need to be replaced every 60K, but the job is one that any DIY could do, and a mechanic could EASILY do it too. I would not say that this is a repair that would warrent junking the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 it's worth fixing unless there is major damage and should be much cheaper. $850 definitely isn't worth it as you can buy a motor for $200-300 or less. i just sold a motor with new head gaskets, timing belts, water pump, and pulleys for $250 so paying $850 for just that work is too high. the harmonic balancer is the crankshaft pulley. get a used one from the yard or a board member for $25 and that's solved. if you're really cheap, just weld it together if it's not damaged. the main crank pulley is really two pieces of metal with a very thin rubber ring between them. this ring seperates from the metal causing issues. if the pulley is damaged then no need to repair it, just install a used one. you can also temporarily get by with wedging self-tapping screws into the old pulley between the inner and outer metal, this will hold it together until you find a used one or get one mailed to you. if the pulley came completely loose and was damaged though, you'll need another. by bearings he is speaking of the timing belt pulley bearings. buy them new from http://www.thepartsbin.com for about $25 each or just repack the bearings with grease. i did a write up on how to do it here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=50430 and it costs zero dollars....okay, about 53 cents for the grease. takes about 2 minutes to do each bearing, well worth it and it works great. it's also possible to just reinstall the old ones, but that's not a great idea if they are noisey or they could even be sticking/frozen if they are bad. bearings - repack with grease (no cost), used crank pulley for well under 50 bucks and cost of new timing belts (25-50 bucks) and labor and you're done. replace the water pump while the timing belts are off as it's behind them and you can get them cheap from rockauto.com or http://www.thepartsbin.com. $15-$30 for a new (rebuilt) water pump. good luck and if the car is in decent shape, it'll keep plugging along no problems. try to find someone that will install a used crank pulley and buy those parts from the online discount sites. maybe your mechanic is willing if you give him the parts? if he quoted $850 i'd be scared to trust him unless he's just not familiar with subaru's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91' loyale Sub Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 Wow, thanks for your help. I am just an college student trying to get by and 850$ is beyond affordable for me. Thanks for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 Wow' date=' thanks for your help. I am just an college student trying to get by and 850$ is beyond affordable for me. Thanks for the advice.[/quote'] no problem, that's how i started working on cars, no money in college. now i still do it for the fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
85Sub4WD Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Wow' date=' thanks for your help. I am just an college student trying to get by and 850$ is beyond affordable for me. Thanks for the advice.[/quote']I'm a college student too - and I love my soob because I can do ALL the work on it - its so easy to service!!! - they are REALLY cheap cars to keep going good luck!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowmastered87GL Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Must be a chevy mechanic or something.... the subaru engine is NATURALLY balanced so it doesnt need external balancing. For timing belts and bearings on the tensioners and stuff... eh, ok price, I say too much personally unless they are doing the oil and water pump and oil seals too. Dont scrap it for timing belts... they need to be done every 55-60K I broke 2 sets in my 87 GL (wont hurt anything, just leaves you walking to a phone) I am having some problems I am hoping someone could shed some light on. I have a 91' subaru loyale which need a new harmonic balancer and timing belt aswell as bearings. The mechanic is estimating 850$ does this sound like a fair price. The car has 188' date='000 miles on it im thinking maybe i should just scrap it what do you think?[/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Dont scrap it for timing belts... they need to be done every 55-60K I broke 2 sets in my 87 GL (wont hurt anything, just leaves you walking to a phone) Or runnin on two cylinders;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortimc Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know an engine only needs a harmonic balencer if it has a odd number of cylinders, like a justy motor. Or am i getting termonology mixed up. Anyways, do the work yourself if you feel confident or yer mechanically inclined in any way. Theres plenty of informaton here to help you along. Its not that hard, I taught my girlfriend how to do it (not mechanically inclined, but interisted). I think timing belts are 40 bucks at the most, get the other parts from a junker. It be a good learning experience anyways. Good luck Clayton Bellingham, WA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Sorry, I just re-read your post and realize that you have a Loyale and not a Legacy. Only differences is that the Loyale belts are slightly more difficult to replace and might take another hour. I'd have to recheck the parts cost for your car since I haven't done one on my old '86 GL for long enough that I don't remember the parts cost. So take my other comments about keeping the car because they don't change and continue to get a price from a 2nd source. Having just replaced the belt and all the idlers and tensioner on my '91 legacy, the $850 is not out of line. I bought all the parts OEM with 35% off list price and it came to $550 and I didn't have to replace the harmonic balancer (not an obscure term...it's the main crank pulley). So a fair price for just the parts is around $635. Add two hours labor and you get to $850 pretty fast. I wouldn't think that I'd junk the car is the rest of the car is in reasonably good condition and you planned to keep it for another 60K miles. "harmonic balancer" is either an obscure term that means nothing important, or the guy means to say that he is replacing your tensioners (long shot) - the "bearings" thing is also a bit vague - wheel bearings?? if so, they are ~$50 for the kit - and probably less than $100 for the labor - not all should need to be replaced, just the ones making noise either way, $850 is VERY high in my opinion given the job - parts (including tensioners) are less than $100, and the job is 3 hours or less labor - even if the guy is expensive ($60/hour) then the total cost should be around $280, maybe as high as $300 or $350 NOT $850 I'd shop around, a timing belts DO need to be replaced every 60K, but the job is one that any DIY could do, and a mechanic could EASILY do it too. I would not say that this is a repair that would warrent junking the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 the subaru engine is NATURALLY balanced so it doesnt need external balancing. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know an engine only needs a harmonic balencer if it has a odd number of cylinders "harmonic balancer" refers to the crank pulley. a pulley is a round piece of metal. a harmonic balancer is the same round piece of metal with some kind of damping mechanism designed in it. subaru pulleys (maybe not all of them, but most that i've seen) are metal with a very thin rubber ring about midway across the radius. this gives it the name "harmonic balancer". harmonic balancer and crank pulley are very often interchanged in conversation. a subaru motor will run fine on a one piece "non harmonic balancing" type of pulley and plenty of people here are running with them in place. but stock they do come with a "harmonic balancer" type of pulley so call it either one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Here's your timing belt set, with belts and all the pulleys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 look at that link he just posted. those three pulleys in the picture are the "bearings" your mechanic is talking about. buy these new here, or repack like the thread i mentioned earlier. looks like a good deal, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 That ebay price is excellent, you should get it. Also, consider looking for a water pump for your car; if it's been over 90K miles since the water pump was replaced, you might as well do it while you're doing the belts. The labor here is what's most expensive; no point in doing the labor again in 6 months when the old water pump fails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 On the harmonic balancer issue -- the Ford 351W V8 I helped rebuild a few years ago had a big metal weight, about an inch thick and 6 inches diameter, put on the front of the crankshaft in between the timing chain gear and the crankshaft pully. I've never seen something like this on a subaru. I guess it's small enough it is built into the crank pully instead of being separate. On price, I think I paid $300 for replacing timing belts, water pump, and front cam seals on my EA82. I provided most of the parts, and also shoveled snow for two days for the shop (I had more time than money at that time and his shop had just gotten 6 feet of snow which buried all the cars waiting to be worked on). So figure somewhere around $450 normal price. He did specialize in old japanese cars (his car was the same model subaru as mine), so he was pretty quick at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHIM Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 allmost all american motors have a harmonic balancer, The motor itself is balanced but the hamonic balancer reduces the vibration in the crank shaft making you motor shake less and makes the main bearings a little happier. The harmonis balancer has nothing to do with the pully's, it is a completly different part but just happens to be placed by each other, i wasn't awar that subaru motor's had them. Non of my subie motor's do anyway Anyway a harmoc balancer works alot like the springs your washing machine, bakes it opertae smoother by taking vibartion out of motion. ~Dayten~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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