Phugoid Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 My 97 OBW with 108k has developed a pulsing when rounding corners. It seems to be in the frequency band of wheels or anything spinning at that speed. It's definitely not an engine sound. It's most noticible traveling on cloverleafs, i.e. where there's a slow sharp turn. Even when turning out of parking lots, you can hear it. It's a quiet low frequency pulse. Wum wum wum wum wum.... It goes away when I'm traveling straight, so only when turning. I was thinking tires or CV joints? Tires are up for rotation on my next oil change, but that's not for another 1k. Thanks! Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 is this an automatic? If it is, put the a fuse in the FWD holder and see if it goes away. If it does go away, then you have torque bind. Next make sure all the tires are equally worn and all at the same inflation. If they are then you need a transmission flush. This seems to solve the problem, and if you do have it it sounds like it is at the early stage. If you never have had the tranny serviced, may still be a good idea to have it done. If it does not go away, or you have a manual tranny, check your tires and make sure they still look like tires. Check the the sidewalls have no dimples, and the the side walls are still parallel to each other on the same tire. Have the wheel bearings inspected and the cv joints looked at. Do you have any ripped cv boots? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phugoid Posted January 22, 2006 Author Share Posted January 22, 2006 Nope...5MT! I'll try to look at the CV joints, boots myself. Otherwise, I'll have the dealer do it next time I go (1k miles), maybe they can look at bearings too. Here's an interesting note...got to my destination today and the power steering fluid was just barely on the dipstick. I'll refill it tomorrow. Where could my PS fluid be going? I just filled it in Oct! Thanks, Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joygoat Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 is this an automatic? If it is, put the a fuse in the FWD holder and see if it goes away. If it does go away, then you have torque bind. Next make sure all the tires are equally worn and all at the same inflation. If they are then you need a transmission flush. This seems to solve the problem, and if you do have it it sounds like it is at the early stage. If you never have had the tranny serviced, may still be a good idea to have it done. I found this forum while searching for a fix for a similar sounding problem with my 95 Legacy. My tires are all decent and properly inflated, and I've noticed this shuddering type feeling, particularly with cornering on bare pavement. When there's snow on the ground, I've not had this problem at all. I thought it might be CV joints or wheel bearings, but my mechanic said these all looked good. He suggested that it might be something with the 4-wheel drive sensors - but you're saying that it might be just in need of a transmission flush. I'll look into putting in the FWD fuse, this sounds sort of promising to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 It might well be your power steering pump, Phugoid. Happened to me awhile back--don't remember any odd sounds but the steering started to feel jumpy, it would "judder" on turns. I put a new pump on (not too difficult--everything is up front where you can reach it) and solved the problem. There are pump overhaul kits available I think, but I didn't know about them at the time so I just bought a brand new one. Hope it's as simple as that. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 I found this forum while searching for a fix for a similar sounding problem with my 95 Legacy. My tires are all decent and properly inflated, and I've noticed this shuddering type feeling, particularly with cornering on bare pavement. When there's snow on the ground, I've not had this problem at all. I thought it might be CV joints or wheel bearings, but my mechanic said these all looked good. He suggested that it might be something with the 4-wheel drive sensors - but you're saying that it might be just in need of a transmission flush. I'll look into putting in the FWD fuse, this sounds sort of promising to me. You my freind have torque bind. What you need to do is to have your tranny flushed, then drive in circles a few times to loosen everything up. If there has been no real damage to the tranny, then it should clear it up. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 My 97 OBW with 108k has developed a pulsing when rounding corners. It seems to be in the frequency band of wheels or anything spinning at that speed. It's definitely not an engine sound. It's most noticible traveling on cloverleafs, i.e. where there's a slow sharp turn. Even when turning out of parking lots, you can hear it. It's a quiet low frequency pulse. Wum wum wum wum wum.... It goes away when I'm traveling straight, so only when turning. I was thinking tires or CV joints? Tires are up for rotation on my next oil change, but that's not for another 1k. Thanks! Reid One question i meant tio ask. Where do you feel this pulsing, in the steering wheel, brake pedal, shifter, your seat... nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwatt Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 My 97 OBW with 108k has developed a pulsing when rounding corners. It seems to be in the frequency band of wheels or anything spinning at that speed. It's definitely not an engine sound. It's most noticible traveling on cloverleafs, i.e. where there's a slow sharp turn. Even when turning out of parking lots, you can hear it. It's a quiet low frequency pulse. Wum wum wum wum wum.... It goes away when I'm traveling straight, so only when turning. I was thinking tires or CV joints? Tires are up for rotation on my next oil change, but that's not for another 1k. Thanks! Reid Just went through this with our '98 OBW. It began as a "whump whump whump" sound at the right front---once with every revolution of the axle---only on low-speed turns. Over a few weeks, it gradually worsened and became almost constant while driving, not just when turning. Look carefully at the passenger-side inner CV boot--they're the first to fail because they're located right over the catalytic convertor. If the boot is torn, replace the right front axle as a complete assembly. Don't make the mistake that I made and replace the boots only. I did that on our car in April '05 (thought I was "saving money"). In November '05, our noise began, and I ended up replacing both front axles with reman assemblies from Subaru. Don't let your local Subaru dealer try to tell you that "remanufactured axles aren't available from Subaru." They are available from Subaru---just check with 1stsubaruparts.com -- those guys know their stuff and are a pleasure to deal with. (Reman axle assemblies are available from many auto parts suppliers, but I still like to use "genuine Subaru" if possible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Don't let your local Subaru dealer try to tell you that "remanufactured axles aren't available from Subaru." They are available from Subaru---just check with 1stsubaruparts.com -- those guys know their stuff and are a pleasure to deal with. (Reman axle assemblies are available from many auto parts suppliers, but I still like to use "genuine Subaru" if possible) You actually had a dealer tell you that? I guess he had no interest in your business. Ive always gotten my axles from subaru when i had my GL, as around here they were only 20.00 more then the auto parts store. I agree sometimes its best toget subaru parts, especially if there is any chance of a mismatch in parts. You dont want to know how many axles i wnet through in the GL, untill i went to subaru and got the right parts. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 sounds like what my wheel bearing did before it went into self-destruct mode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phugoid Posted January 23, 2006 Author Share Posted January 23, 2006 I now believe I have a PS leak somewhere as the fluid was awfully low when I checked it. This may or may not be related. Perhaps the pump is failing causing the pulsing and is leaking fluid. Nipper...it's interesting that you ask that because I don't feel it anywhere actually. It's just audible. So far we have: 1. PS pump 2. Axles 3. Wheel Bearings 4. Tires Rotation should eliminate tires if the sound moves. I don't know how to eliminate the other three. Any suggestions? This is good stuff. Thanks guys. Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 since its audible on turns im going with power sterring. Look under the car towards the firewall behind the engine. Thats where the hoses connect to the rack. Thats usually where they leak fluid. If you have lost enough fluid for long enough you have damaged the PS pump. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phugoid Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Bah! That was the most expensive choice! Also the easiest for me to replace though. When I added PS fluid the noise level did seem to go down. I'll check for leaks where you have identified. Is there a way to identify a bad PS pump for certain? 1stsubaruparts.com quoted ~ $250 for a new one. I don't want to be wrong. Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 If your strong enough ... find an empty parking lot and remove the fan belt and drive through some manuvers. You wont hurt anything by doing this for 5 minutes. The waterpump operates off the timing belts, and a car with everything off can run almost an hour on a healthy battery. Thats all it should take to determine if that was the noise. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Is there a way to identify a bad PS pump for certain? 1stsubaruparts.com quoted ~ $250 for a new one. I don't want to be wrong. Reid Geez, that's awful! I seem to remember paying about $130 just a year or two ago--from 1stsubaruparts too. You might want to check your local salvage yards or look into overhauling your present pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Geez, that's awful! I seem to remember paying about $130 just a year or two ago--from 1stsubaruparts too. Just did a quick search of "power steering pump." Seems the most common failure is the o-ring between the reservoir and pump body. Total fix, $.30. If this works . . . please don't tell me!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 i would fix the leak first, then see if the pump is shot. After fixing the leak, fill the resvior up with the car running. Turn the wheel lock to lock a few times to bleed the system of air. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phugoid Posted January 24, 2006 Author Share Posted January 24, 2006 Alright. Thanks for the help. I'm going to try to track down this leak and report back. I have Friday off, so that might be a good opportunity. Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwatt Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 My 97 OBW with 108k has developed a pulsing when rounding corners. It seems to be in the frequency band of wheels or anything spinning at that speed. It's definitely not an engine sound. It's most noticible traveling on cloverleafs, i.e. where there's a slow sharp turn. Even when turning out of parking lots, you can hear it. It's a quiet low frequency pulse. Wum wum wum wum wum.... It goes away when I'm traveling straight, so only when turning. I was thinking tires or CV joints? Tires are up for rotation on my next oil change, but that's not for another 1k. Thanks! Reid Maybe I misunderstood your first post. When you said it goes "Wum wum wum wum wum.... It goes away when I'm traveling straight" I thought this meant that your noise might be occuring once with every revolution of an axle. Can you relate the noise on your car to a "once with every revolution of an axle" kind of "thump thump thump" ?? Can you get it to make the noise if you turn the steering wheel with the car sitting still (engine idleing) or is the noise occuring only when rolling at low speeds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phugoid Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 Yup. It only happens when moving and it can definitely be related to an axel or wheel, or something rotating at that speed. The more I hear it, the more it sounds like tires, although this PS issues still needs to be taken care of. The noise does not occur when idling sitting still; it only happens when rolling at slow speeds. Thanks! Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Check the tires for broken belts and inspect the front wheel bearings and cv joints. Could be a cv joint starting to seize. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwatt Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Yup. It only happens when moving and it can definitely be related to an axel or wheel, or something rotating at that speed. The more I hear it, the more it sounds like tires, although this PS issues still needs to be taken care of. The noise does not occur when idling sitting still; it only happens when rolling at slow speeds. Thanks! Reid Well, of course the tires are gonna' be rolling whether you're turning or driving straight--so if the noise is there only when turning, I'm doubting that the tires are the cause. I'm still betting that a CV joint is beginning to fail. The symptom you're describing is exactly how it began on my wife's '98 Outback....and it gradually got worse to the point where you could hear constant clunking---once with every revolution of the right front axle---even when driving straight. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I made the mistake of replacing torn CV boots (and not simply replacing the entire axle assembly) 6 months before the noise began, so I sort-of just knew where the noise had to be coming from on our car. If, over the next couple of hundred miles, that noise on your car gradually worsens to the point where it's occuring while driving straight, there really isn't much else that it could be.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phugoid Posted January 27, 2006 Author Share Posted January 27, 2006 Okay...I checked both the front inner and outer CV boots and they look brand new! They weren't even dirty let alone torn or otherwise damaged. Does this rule out the CV or axle possibility? I may try to check wheel bearings tomorrow by giving it the test prescribed in the Haynes manual - wiggle the wheel, if there's any play, then the bearing is bad. On another note, I found out where my PS fluid is going. Olnick may have hit it on the head with the pump/reservoir seal. Below the reservoir is a greasy trail leading to 4 or 5 puddles of PS fluid. It's collecting next to the EJ25 stamping. Here's a question...what are the outputs on the PS reservoir? I see two lines going out. Is that it? Or does the reservoir feed the pump directly without a hose? I'm trying to isolate where the leak is. The two lines exiting the reservoir are in good condition and not greasy. Yet, everything below the reservoir is soaked. Thanks for the help. Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Just to clarify re the PS pump: The reservoir is the metal canister on top, the return line feeds into the side of it (at least it does on my '95 Legacy L). The pump is the cast metal device below, the one with the pulley--it has the output line connected to it. Can you tell if fluid is leaking out between the reservoir and the pump? If so it's most likely the o-ring between the two that's leaking. Suck the fluid out of the reservoir and remove it--two bolts, one inside the reservoir and one at the base. Check it out in a Haynes manual. You may not even have to remove the pump itself. Hope that's the root of your problem. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Okay...I checked both the front inner and outer CV boots and they look brand new! They weren't even dirty let alone torn or otherwise damaged. Does this rule out the CV or axle possibility? I may try to check wheel bearings tomorrow by giving it the test prescribed in the Haynes manual - wiggle the wheel, if there's any play, then the bearing is bad. Thanks for the help. Reid The good boots doesnt rule out the cv joints totally. Its still posible that a cv joint is going bad, but less likely. With the front wheels off the ground, turn the wheel to the point where you would here the noise. Now turn each wheel by hand. They should feel the same (im not sure if it will be a smooth movement.. i think it should be) Listen carefully, but more so listen with your hands .. see if you can feel a differnce. Another thig to try is to have the tires rotated and see if it moves. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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