zzzasy Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Why no one talks about rebuilding a motor But yet your willing to spend 3000.00 dollars for a new engine that wont fix the problem SO then give us a fighting chance to help you out here, otherwise im going to stop and move on. What did you replace What are the symptons When does it occur What engine is in the car How many miles What transmission is in the car Did you have any codes pulled, if not get them pulled and tell us what they are. nipper To began my saga, near the end of summer I drove the car to work one morning; everything was fine. When I got off, I drove the car and it didn't want to run right. (I need to mention that before this my CEL would blink occasionally which I think meant it was dumping fuel). It kept sputtering, and shaking and wouldn't go over 40. I called a mechanic and asked him if he thought it would be a problem driving it home (about 40 miles). He said if its not running hot it shouldn't be a problem. Since it never ran hot, I drove it the 40 miles home with the petal to the floor which netted 40 mph. I looked under the car when I got home and the cats were red hot. I replaced the cats and 02 sensors with aftermarkets. After replacing the cats the car ran fine when cold. When it reached operating temps, it still acted sort of the same as it did with the clogged cats, but it would run faster for longer than the case with the clogged cats. It threw a camshaft position sensor code. Not paying close enough attention, I replaced the crankshaft position sensor. Cleared the codes and this time it came back with a knock sensor code. I replaced the knock sensor and it threw the camshaft position sensor code. I replaced the camshaft position sensor, but the code kept coming back. I decided to let the dealer tell me what the problem was so I could fix. Dealer said he wanted $495 to diagnose the camshaft position CEL. I picked the car and its sitting in my parking space until the weather break so I can pull the timing covers and see what's going on under there. To answer your questions nipper: 1. What did you replace? cats/o2s/camshaft position sensor/knock sensor/crankshaft position sensor 2. What are your symptoms? car runs fine when cold; when it reaches operating temp it starts cutting out; it will hesistate, pickup a little then hesistate again. 3. When does it occurs? after reaching operating temp 4. What engine is in the car? The engine is a used '97 that was put in X-mas before last when the car broke down during X-mas vacation 5. How many miles? around 102, 000 on car. Supposely 65,000 on engine. 6. What transmission? 5 speed manual 7. any codes? same code camshaft position sensor Let me know if you need more info. Like I mentioned earlier, I really need the weather to break before I can do a lot of work to car. Its outside in front of my townhouse. zzzasy '98 OBW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nixon Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Re: Why no one talks about rebuilding a motor nipper r 2. What are your symptoms? car runs fine when cold; when it reaches operating temp it starts cutting out; it will hesistate, pickup a little then hesistate again. Sounds like the symptoms i had when i adjusted the tps to somewhere it didn't want to be. Scribe the current position, and move it a couple of degs one way or t'other .stay within the no buzzing zone(engine off,ignition on-you'll see what i mean), or search the threads to do it properly. Worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Thats cool. That wil help us try to trouble shoot this thing i'm just trying to help. Sometimes threads get convoluted and we loose the details. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyKeith Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I posted about this in one of your other threads yesterday. There is a coolant temp sensor located on the coolant cross over pipe. Its burried underneath the intake manifold and very hard to see. This sensor tells the ECU what the operating temp of the car is. When the engine is cold it runs rich. One of the common ways people find their sensor is bad is when trying to re-start the car after it is already warm. If the sensor is bad, sometimes when re-starting the eninge when it is already warm, the sensor tells the ECU that the engine is cold, it goes into rich mode, and floods the engine and the car won't start. Have you ever had this symptom? Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 +1 for checking the engine temp sensor. Also, I think the ECU uses the cam and crank sensors as 'checks' against each other for ignition timing. I'd get that issue resolved. (bad sensor, timing belt 'slipped' a tooth or 2, bad wiring, bad ECU,etc.)I would also be prepared to get another cat conv. if the newest one has been run very long under too rich (or too lean) conditions. Don't discount the possibilty of having more than one problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I would recommend looking at cam timing first. Contrary to what has been said before, these engines will run with timing belt a tooth off. If cam timing is off that could accout for high levels of hydro carbons and melted cats. And also the fact that the cam sensor code keeps coming back. What cam sensor code are you getting. There are 4 different OBD II generic cam codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Sometimes a slipped timing belt or sticking valves can be indicated by holding a strip of paper near the tailpipe. If it tries to suck IN periodically while the engine is running, could mean valve timing is off. Compare to a well running car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 It might be good to check everything from the cam timing up. Sometimes what happens is that in looking for a problem several more are created. If it acts funny only when warm or only cold the first thing I change is the coolant sensor. I usually get a code for other sensors. Any sensor code I would change that sensor also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzasy Posted March 2, 2006 Author Share Posted March 2, 2006 Hi all, thanks for all the help. I'm going to put this thread on hold until the weather breaks because I cannot followup on your suggestions right now. When the weather breaks, I will start by removing the timing covers and try to reset the timing. At that point, I wil bring this thread out of the mottballs and seek your advice and help. thanks, curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly_jacek Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Before starting tearing the timing belt, check the temp sensor FCS! Or buy a $50-100 OBD2 interface. Trying to diagnose a modern car without a OBD2 scanner (and knowledge how to use it) is insane IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Hi all, thanks for all the help. I'm going to put this thread on hold until the weather breaks because I cannot followup on your suggestions right now. When the weather breaks, I will start by removing the timing covers and try to reset the timing. At that point, I wil bring this thread out of the mottballs and seek your advice and help. thanks, curtis on a subaru if the timing is off by one tooth the car wont run. The fuel pressure regulator is something to check also. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 on a subaru if the timing is off by one tooth the car wont run. nipper Not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 interesting, maybe it depends on engine - or which direction it's jumped? I dunno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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