To transfer clutch or not to transfer clutch

[0beron]

Hey everyone,

This is an update from my previous post.

 

To recap I had a Duty C solenoid go bad on my 97 Legacy. By the time torque bind appeared there was also a noise coming from the pass. side rear wheel. The noise was/is present mostly during coasting. Never during hard acceleration. I would describe the noise as a skipping or grinding it isn't constant so it sounds in a sense like a piece of metal being dragged over concrete. There was some rather sever torque bind also.

 

Long story short I brought the car to the dealer. They said they'd call me and tell me what they found. I purposely didn't give them a lot of information; I wanted to test their diagnostic capability. The called and said the Duty C solenoid was bad (that's what the diagnostic code said) I asked them at that time to check the transfer clutch.

 

When I picked up the car, I saw the Xfer Clutch had not been serviced. I inquired and was told by the mechanic who worked on the car that the transfer clutch was fine.

 

I drove the car home and noticed the torque bind was gone but the noise had not changed. I rang the dealership the next day they told me to bring it back in. When I came to pick up the vehicle they were insistant that the transfer clutch was fine. They insisted the rear differential was bad and suggested I replace it. They didn't feel it was worth it to service the differential and I would agree..if that had been the problem.

 

I spent this past weekend swapping out the differential for a used one. 6-7 hours and some bruised knuckles later I have nothing to show for it. The problem is still there. I did take pictures so I could do a writeup if anyone is interested.

 

I am thinking this is the transfer clutch. I really think the dealership should have replaced the clutch when the center diff assembly was off the transmission. However, I think I need a bit more ammo before going after the dealership. In fact, I think the dealership knows it's the transfer clutch and sent me on a wild goose-chase thinking I'd just ditch the car rather than swapping in a diff.

 

Here's my questions (finally) would a burnt transfer clutch manifest itself as a sound inside the cab that seems to be coming from the pass side rear wheel? Could it be the extension housing? Does the Service Bulletin for the torque bind issue indicate that the clutch should be replaced?

 

I have no problem paying for the parts what I have a problem with is the $600 in labor they want to charge to get inside the assembly. My argument is that they should have replaced it the first time. I think they didn't because the trouble code didn't say anything about the transfer clutch. If they would have listened to me they would have replaced it. I'm never going back to these guys again but, if the Xfer clutch is at fault, it should have been replaced the first time round.

 

 

0beron.

[1 Lucky Texan]

Have you confirmed it isn't a wheel bearing or maybe a frozen U joint?

 

I dunno, just seems like there could be some other possibilities.

 

 

Carl

[idosubaru]

noise at a wheel is not indicative of a transmission issue. wheel bearing, brakes, strut, cv shaft are more likely. narrow down the issue before assuming anything.

[0beron]

Have you confirmed it isn't a wheel bearing or maybe a frozen U joint?

 

I dunno, just seems like there could be some other possibilities.

I agree there are other possibilities. I'm just at a loss as to what they are.

 

I brought the car to another mechanic when I thought a CV joint may be at fault. They also thought the problem lay within the differential and noted the wheel bearings were quiet.

 

A frozen U-joint to me would cause considerable shuddering a highway speeds. I don't have that problem.

[1 Lucky Texan]

I agree there are other possibilities. I'm just at a loss as to what they are.

 

I brought the car to another mechanic when I thought a CV joint may be at fault. They also thought the problem lay within the differential and noted the wheel bearings were quiet.

 

A frozen U-joint to me would cause considerable shuddering a highway speeds. I don't have that problem.

 

does the sound change when turning? A sweeping curve left versus a sweeping curve to the right? A wheel bearing would likely be noisier during a turn as more stress is transfered to the opposite side.

 

have the backing plates been examined on the brakes? Is brake wear uniform? After a drive, would all 4 wheel hubs feel like they are the same temp or is one hotter than the others?

 

Has the car ever been driven through very deep water? I THINK it's possible for water to get sucked into a vent on top of the housing, possibly contaminating the oil.

 

I dunno

 

 

Carl

[0beron]

noise at a wheel is not indicative of a transmission issue. wheel bearing, brakes, strut, cv shaft are more likely. narrow down the issue before assuming anything.

 

Again, I would agree. The big gotcha being that the noise go away almost completely with the FWD fuse placed. I say almost because I did once here something from that wheel with the fuse in place. It certainly isn't as noticeable.

 

CV joints and bearing check out. Brakes and the shield are a place to look next but have never been a focus because of the whole FWD making the problem go away. I'm considering dropping the driveshat and seeing what that does.

[nipper]

noise at the wheel chainging when the FWD fuse being put in is not unusual. The wheel has changed from driving to being driven, hence differnt dynamics on the bearing.

If the dealer says the clutch pack is fine, its fine. They usually jump at the chance of a 900.00 repair bill that they can do blindfolded.

 

Most likely rear wheel bearing.

 

nipper

[0beron]

noise at the wheel chainging when the FWD fuse being put in is not unusual. The wheel has changed from driving to being driven, hence differnt dynamics on the bearing.

If the dealer says the clutch pack is fine, its fine. They usually jump at the chance of a 900.00 repair bill that they can do blindfolded.

 

Most likely rear wheel bearing.

 

nipper

 

My suspicion centers around the idea that an inexperience mechanic followed what the trouble code said and replaced the duty C solenoid without actually checking the transfer clutch. They drove around the parking lot and didn't feel any torque bind and congratulated themselves. Anyway, I can certainly see that the shop would be less than willing to have to spend another 6 hours that they aren't going to get paid for to make up a mistake if they can get me to just go away on some fools errand. I have a couple of good friends who are forklift mechanics and they constantly talk about "billable hours" and the fact that people are constantly fired for not meeting their numbers and that's the forklift industry never mind a high-end dealership with huge turnover.

 

With that said I'm not saying that is the case. I'd like it to be something else. Tonight I checked the U-joints, they're fine. No play in the drive shaft to the diff. The wheel bearings are still suspect. The side making the noise is easier to turn than the quiet side. Of course there are no obvious sounds up on jack stands. Brakes aren't dragging, rotors look good. The wheel bearing seems the most likely, just because I can't rule them out, after spending a precious weekend under my beloved Subaru I just don't know if I can take another dissapointment.

 

I'd continue to appreciate any other ideas out there and continue to appreciate everyone's help. Like I said, I've got a bundle of pictures from the diff. swap. Perhaps I'll add rear bearing replacement. Heck, at this point it's nearly a guide on rebuilding a rear end on a 96-99 Legacy.

 

0beron

[1 Lucky Texan]

My suspicion centers around the idea that an inexperience mechanic followed what the trouble code said and replaced the duty C solenoid without actually checking the transfer clutch. They drove around the parking lot and didn't feel any torque bind and congratulated themselves. Anyway, I can certainly see that the shop would be less than willing to have to spend another 6 hours that they aren't going to get paid for to make up a mistake if they can get me to just go away on some fools errand. I have a couple of good friends who are forklift mechanics and they constantly talk about "billable hours" and the fact that people are constantly fired for not meeting their numbers and that's the forklift industry never mind a high-end dealership with huge turnover.

 

With that said I'm not saying that is the case. I'd like it to be something else. Tonight I checked the U-joints, they're fine. No play in the drive shaft to the diff. The wheel bearings are still suspect. The side making the noise is easier to turn than the quiet side. Of course there are no obvious sounds up on jack stands. Brakes aren't dragging, rotors look good. The wheel bearing seems the most likely, just because I can't rule them out, after spending a precious weekend under my beloved Subaru I just don't know if I can take another dissapointment.

 

I'd continue to appreciate any other ideas out there and continue to appreciate everyone's help. Like I said, I've got a bundle of pictures from the diff. swap. Perhaps I'll add rear bearing replacement. Heck, at this point it's nearly a guide on rebuilding a rear end on a 96-99 Legacy.

 

0beron

The only thing I can add is, from a LOT of reading here and some at another board, I've never encountered someone with your noise symptom having a center diff problem. Not saying you couldn't have a unique situation. Or 2 different problems. Rear diff? maybe. frozen caliper - possible. Wheel bearing - very likely. Its a common source for the type noise you report on most cars in general.

 

Can you have someone pace the car in a parking lot, have them alternately lisen to both sides and maybe they will hear the bearing?

 

good luck

 

 

Carl