Megell Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Went to the dealership this morning to pick up my 91 Legacy sports sedan that I took in for a clutch job. I pay the $1259.19 for the following: new clutch assy., rear main seal and oil seperator, trans and rear diff oil change and tune up with plugs, wires, air filter and fuel filter. Got in car and started it up and lifted my foot off of the clutch gently and the clutch immediately engaged (like way too soon) and the car lurched forward and I thought WTF (what the fookay!) Service dude sez that basically in so many words that that is the way it is supposed to be and that there is no way to adust it up to a more normal pedal engagment. OK, so I drive the car back home (60 miles) and stop for one errand (to get some beers) and start the car and the clutch pedal stayed on the floor. OK again, I call the dealer and let them know the latest news on the repair job and they tell me that the throwout brg might not have stayed in place during re-assembly, and that the clutch works the opposite way and "normal clutch" works and that the T/O bearing "pulls" on the pressure plate instead of "pushing" on the pressure plate. I don't understand how this system can work. Sorry for the long topic here, but is this true that the clutch works in the opposite direction of a normal clutch assembly, like on american cars. I have installed, over the years a few dozen clutch jobs on various vehicles and this is a new one on me. The clutch acts like there is air in the line to me, but dealer sez they did not disturb that part of the system (hydraulic clutch). Any info is much appreciated since the car is going to be flatbedded back to dealership on Tuesday and I want to go armed with as much info as possible. Another interesting thing is that they charged me for 9.5 hrs of labor when they only had the car for one day and a total of 8 hrs. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 from haynes "When pressure is applied to the clutch pedal on a cable operated system, the clutch cable pulls the outer end of the release lever. When the lever pivots at it's fulccrum point on a ballstud, the inner end of the lever pushes against the release bearing, which slides forward on the input shaft against the diaphram fingers ...." a hydraulic system pushes against the clutch fork, then it works the same. it could be he was confusing the two, as cables cant push they can only pull. The cable can be adjusted to the proerp height. Now my question is did they replace the clutch cable? It sounds like to me (cable is always overloked) like the cable stretched out/borke or is going to break. nipper nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megell Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 from haynes "When pressure is applied to the clutch pedal on a cable operated system, the clutch cable pulls the outer end of the release lever. When the lever pivots at it's fulccrum point on a ballstud, the inner end of the lever pushes against the release bearing, which slides forward on the input shaft against the diaphram fingers ...." a hydraulic system pushes against the clutch fork, then it works the same. it could be he was confusing the two, as cables cant push they can only pull. The cable can be adjusted to the proerp height. Now my question is did they replace the clutch cable? It sounds like to me (cable is always overloked) like the cable stretched out/borke or is going to break. nipper nipper[/quote Nipper, it's a hydraulic system. It is my understanding that the hydraulic clutch was used only for the turbo cars in the 91 to 94 legacys. I do understand you when you refer to how clutch action/engagement works on typical clutch systems, but I'm still confused about what he said regarding the T/O brg pulling on the pressure plate fingers instead of pushing on the fingers to disengage the clutch. It seems to me that there is a semi serious comunication gap in my understanding with the dealership at this point. So, anyone done a legacy clutch lately? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 He doesnt have a clue. Did they bleed the system? like i said it pushes the TO bearing, been like that since the begining of time. It could be just bad timing, but maybe you lost the seals in the slave and or master cylinder. i usually replace them both. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMattyD Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Regarding the labor costs: Maybe part of the job was a two person job and they charged you for total man-hours of labor??? matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megell Posted September 2, 2006 Author Share Posted September 2, 2006 He doesnt have a clue. Did they bleed the system? like i said it pushes the TO bearing, been like that since the begining of time. It could be just bad timing, but maybe you lost the seals in the slave and or master cylinder. i usually replace them both. nipper Thanks nipper, I hear ya ....about the bleeding the system , but dealer did not loosen any of the clutch cyl. lines and there is no sign of leakage at the push rod area of the slave cyl. However, I did notice a lot of play when pushing the rod into the slave cyl. (kinda like it might have air in the sytem), but if I mess with it, I might void my warrantee, so can't do a whole lot except have patience and know that next week will be the beginning of a new saga on the clutch replacement efforts with the Subaru dealership. TGIF, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camosuba Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 my understanding of the hyd. clutches is that you can adjust the push rod under the dash if you need to and that will alter the pickup point and thay do work the opposite to the cable type they pull on the bearing not push cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megell Posted September 6, 2006 Author Share Posted September 6, 2006 Update! Camosuba, there are no adjustment "threads" on the clutch pedal rod that goes into the master cyl. to take up the "excessive pedal play" on my 91 legacy. After a long labor day weekend with this nagging clutch problem lingering in the background and with all the inconveniences associated with what should have been a pretty much straightforward clutch job performed by a Subaru dealership. The car was flat-bedded back to the dealership on Tuesday (next day after holiday weekend, their expense). Now (Wednesday), dealer said that the flywheel has some marginal hotspots ( apparently after less than 55 highway miles drive back home, which it didn't even make (back home) on the fly wheel caused by ( umm, what the 55 drive back home?) Ok, Now they want me to pop 380. for a new flywheel, or they won't stand behing the clutch warranty (two yrs, unlimited mileage). My argument is that the service mgr. told me that the flywheel was ok and they just de-glazed it. Fine. So, after a three way conference telephone call with the service mgr, service writer, I suggested that in order to resolve this "issure", that I would pay for 1/2 of the cost of the flywheel ($380.) and they would install another new clutch assy. and honer the two year unlimited mileage warranty. Keeping in mind here that the new clutch "shuttered" when I picked it up (not to mention, the car was almost undriveable due to not dissengaging completely when I picked it up, It did not do that when I brought it to them.) So, I get a new flywheel for under two hundred and I will pay for the clutch slave cyl. and everybody is "happy" Sorry for Off Gassing on you guys, but it's been really stressful working with what I thought was going to be relatively straight forward clutch replacement job. What really pisses me off is that when you take your car into (in this case, the Subaru dealership) for a common repair job (or any job for that matter) and anything goes wrong, that you are at fault. It took alot of persistant crabbing and negotiatiating, but at least I feel a bit better about the whole thing. At least until I go to the dealership again to get me car. Again, sorry for long crab. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDW25gt Posted September 6, 2006 Share Posted September 6, 2006 Went to the dealership this morning to pick up my 91 Legacy sports sedan that I took in for a clutch job. I pay the $1259.19 for the following: new clutch assy., rear main seal and oil seperator, trans and rear diff oil change and tune up with plugs, wires, air filter and fuel filter.Got in car and started it up and lifted my foot off of the clutch gently and the clutch immediately engaged (like way too soon) and the car lurched forward and I thought WTF (what the fookay!) Service dude sez that basically in so many words that that is the way it is supposed to be and that there is no way to adust it up to a more normal pedal engagment. OK, so I drive the car back home (60 miles) and stop for one errand (to get some beers) and start the car and the clutch pedal stayed on the floor. OK again, I call the dealer and let them know the latest news on the repair job and they tell me that the throwout brg might not have stayed in place during re-assembly, and that the clutch works the opposite way and "normal clutch" works and that the T/O bearing "pulls" on the pressure plate instead of "pushing" on the pressure plate. I don't understand how this system can work. Sorry for the long topic here, but is this true that the clutch works in the opposite direction of a normal clutch assembly, like on american cars. I have installed, over the years a few dozen clutch jobs on various vehicles and this is a new one on me. The clutch acts like there is air in the line to me, but dealer sez they did not disturb that part of the system (hydraulic clutch). Any info is much appreciated since the car is going to be flatbedded back to dealership on Tuesday and I want to go armed with as much info as possible. Another interesting thing is that they charged me for 9.5 hrs of labor when they only had the car for one day and a total of 8 hrs. Mike I had my clutch replaced by the stealer. I had a similar problem with engagement. Ended up replacing the hydraulic cylinder. Easy to do, and cost me about $75. I got the same answer. That is the way it is supposed to be. Bull ************! My guess is the hydraulic cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megell Posted September 7, 2006 Author Share Posted September 7, 2006 I had my clutch replaced by the stealer. I had a similar problem with engagement. Ended up replacing the hydraulic cylinder. Easy to do, and cost me about $75. I got the same answer. That is the way it is supposed to be. Bull ************! My guess is the hydraulic cylinder. I took the car in for a clutch replacement, knowing that at 162K, it would probably need it at some point soon, because the clutch pedal feel, felt "weak" even though there was no sign of shuttering or slippage. I just wanted make sure the car was as new in that department (clutch area), especially since I have repainted the car and installed nice alloys (five spoke from Tire Rack), new rear struts/R brakes (pads) , Tires etc; or whatever it needed. Now it seems , that dealer thinks, that the "hydraulics" might be a possible reason why the "low pedal" engagement of the NEW clutch since they took it apart for the second time and nothing was installed wrong. I hear what you are saying regarding the slave cyl mentioned that that might be a "area of interest" and that there was too much freeplay in the slave cyl shaft. Ok, I'm ranting again.. Thanks for your accurate input on this and I'm with you on the current problem of lack of or not much clutch pedal engagement. Interesting thought though. With new clutch installed, If indeed there was air in the line, why would it be much more pronounced with a new clutch and making the car almost undriveable due to the clutch "engageing way too soon) and they said they did not loosen any of the clutch hydraulic lines. So, how come the clutch isn't better, than it was before the new clutch assy, I don't know, but something happened that made that aspect of the clutch operation "badly different". Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 hrmmmmm the hydraulic clutch, stuff happens. The desighn of a diaphram type clutch is intersting in one aspect. As the clutch wears, the diaphram (it being a flat spring) applies more force as it wears. Like any spring, it takes far more force to initally get the spring to compress, then once its compressed. As you approach this (end of) spring travel, you will find the same thing. Maybe this is what you got used to, i dont know , just an idea. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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