Jonah Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 I managed to burn out the clutch on my 91 Subaru Loyale 4WD Wagon about a month ago and finally decided to get it fixed. All of the repair shops here in Missoula have told me that I will need to replace my flywheel, is this always the case with clutches? I have been quoted everything from 500 to 1000 bucks for this repair. Is this something I could do myself? I am only 16 but I have helped my older brother work on his cars a couple of times including replacing a transmission. I was hoping to fix this baby up and sell it so i dont want to spend too much money on it. Any tips or advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahDL88 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 depending on the condition of the flywheel it may need replacement, but a resurface should do fine, thats the "standard" for most shops, like turning brake rotors it gives the clutch a fresh warp free surface to grab onto. That said, i've replaced a few clutches and have not taken the time to get it resurfaced, can't really tell a difference in logevity, but with EJ22 and swampers the clutch won't last that long anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasWaff Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Is this something I could do myself? Well its tough to gauge anyone else's mechnic's skills... You'll need to pull the engine, with all that entails, like a hoist, disconnecting all the electrics and fuel lines, exhaust, control cables, etc. You can get a clutch kit with plate, spring, and bearings. Several of those companies also offer replacement flywheels too, although as Noah said a resurface should be enough. You'll need at least a haynes manual to guide you. Then of course you will need to re-assemble the engine and diagnosis the inevitable quirks that will arise in that process. Its a full blown big job, especially the first time you do it. Also check the USRM (top right of the page in your browser) there's lots of stuff there AND do an advanced search for "clutch replacement" in the older generation of Subaru forum. Read through some of those posts and you'll get the gist of the process. There are ways to do the clutch with out completely pulling the engine, but I have found that it is much easier to get the engine and tranny back together with a hoist. Many equipment rental places rent engine hoists. My gut instinct here is that unless you are planning to start a long affair with Subarus, you'll probably want to get a shop to do it. Good Luck in either case, DasWaff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 That said, i've replaced a few clutches and have not taken the time to get it resurfaced, can't really tell a difference in logevity. I've gone that route on several occasions. The ratio of disc to flywheel/pressure plate replacement seems to be about 2:1 or even 3:1 in small cars I've noticed. Basically the flywheel and pressure plate are like brake rotors and the disc is like the pads. Reality is the flywheel and pressure plate do not wear at anywhere near the rate of the disc (cast iron vs. organic disc material isn't much of a contest). I usually only resurface them if there are serious grooves or discoloration showing it's been overheated. If I had limitess $$, I would just replace them every time, but as most subaru owners I don't. Incidentally I've NEVER replaced one - only resurfaced. As for doing it yourself, that is definately possible. It's not really all that hard to disconnect and pull the engine out. You can rent or borrow a hoist for a day and have the engine out in 2 hours or less. Takes me about an hour to pull one usually. Clutch replacement is striaghtforward, and then back in takes another few hours usually for the uninitiated. Easily a saturday afternoon job if you have some tools. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breaffyaviation Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 You wont learn any younger.Get stuck in ,and you will never look back .I built my first engine at 14 and the only one time in the forty three years since that I left a vehicle to a repair shop they screwed it up .In a couple of weeks you will be giving us advice on clutch replacement . Enjoy the experience , Jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Yeah - don't let anyone scare you, subaru's are one of the easier cars to do a clutch on. At least you don't have to pull front axles or work completely from underneath the car like most FWD transverse vehicles . It's really an ideal learning car for clutch work. Be careful, take your time, label things if you aren't sure you'll know where they go. Put every bolt back in the threads it came from or in a labeled tin, etc. Being a good mechanic is 90% patience and thinking things through. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasWaff Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Is this something I could do myself? I was hoping to fix this baby up and sell it so i dont want to spend too much money on it. I'm not trying to be scary, just saying what it entails... If you're thinking of keeping the car then I'm all for doing it yourself. It gives you a chance to check on and/or fix lots of other stuff while you have then engine pulled. As clutches go, I agree, these are not bad to replace. If you feel inclined to do it, then by all means. You will learn a lot about the car by doing it. No question you will save money. But also consider that if all you want to do is get the car sold, then a brand new clutch with a transferable warranty is going to be a good selling point. It will help make up some or all of the cost differnce in the job as well. There are good Subaru specific shops out there, its likely someone around here knows of one in your area. My gut instinct here is that unless you are planning to start a long affair with Subarus, you'll probably want to get a shop to do it. I should have filtered that last thought, instincts are even less valid than opinions... LOL Type in haste, repent at leasure. Bottom line is, have a good idea of what the project requires and costs, then decide. You'll have the best perspective on whether its a project you want to take on or not. Be careful, take your time, label things if you aren't sure you'll know where they go. Put every bolt back in the threads it came from or in a labeled tin, etc. Being a good mechanic is 90% patience and thinking things through. The difficulty of the job is an opinion, but that is a set of facts. Again good luck either way. DW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 good thorough thread. dont be scared, BUT dont think its a walk in the park either.. although somehow i doubt any sixteen year old is going to hear "all you have to do is pull the engine" and then assume its a walk in the park.... no offense, but the kids who were happy about that at that age, usually arent posting on the forum, thats all. i would say that about the only car better than a soob for learning a clutch job would be a 1970s or so RWD japcar. nice, lightweight componentry, all stretched out along the length of the car. all i had to do on my Zcar was put a jack under the tranny, unbolt the crossmember and the bellhousing, and lower the tranny.. boom, there i was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 If you do decide to do this job your self here's a couple of very importaint yet easy to miss things 1. There is a zero mark stamped in to the fly wheel and the pressure plate, those marks have to be > 120º apart from each other. 2. the torque spec for the pressure plate is between 10.5 - 12.7 ft-lb, use a torque wrech 3. get a full kit with pilot bearing, throw out bearing, pressure plate and disk. This is not a job you want to take short cuts on. 4. Don't forget a pilot tool, alot of kits come with a plastic one, just remember you will need one. The worst thing you will have to do is remember where all the hoses and stuff go:confused: :confused: . Might want to snap some pics before you start and label everything. Later, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Its like anything mechanical...the first time you do it is the hardest...things dont seem to make sence at first..dadadada...With the help of someone who has done it before its really not to bad..like someone else stated..its easier then other FWD cars. If its something you dont need on the road the same day..do it yourself...take your time..you have questions,problems just come here for help. These people here know just about everything there is about these cars.... I have been working on(tinkering) around cars all my life...since I was 5 ...I get easily intimidated but have friends who help me through the repairs and I am a chick and try not to let them do everything for me...its the only way to learn..and save yourself ALOT of money. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 yah that chick rocks, too. seriously, i like to say these cars are built like lego. I've never met a group of engineers who had so few emotional problems growing up (i judge the emotional state of my automotive engineers by how sadistic they seem to be in wishing any technicians much pain in servicing the car, ie if you need sixteen different tools just to change the spark plugs, someone got an atomic wedgie at the WROOOONG time) BTW, how did you come up with the name bucky? i have an uncle who goes by buck.... yes, i have an Uncle Buck. He is Eeyore Incarnate, and i called him that before i ever found the board here.. so it has nothing to do with NorthWet... but hes the car uncle, no family so he got to play with the cars my dad wanted to play with for the last forty years. my dad kinda got to do SOME of the same stuff.. and we all get to play with the racecars, so its all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 1. There is a zero mark stamped in to the fly wheel and the pressure plate, those marks have to be > 120º apart from each other. Later, Tim I keep running into pressure plates with no mark on them . A lot of aftermarket units don't seem to have this. I'm not sure if it's an oversight, or the manufacturing process has now exceeded the need for the balance marks. Flywheel I installed last night had one, but not the PP. Oh well - not a lot I can do about it. heh GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 yah that chick rocks, too. seriously, i like to say these cars are built like lego. I've never met a group of engineers who had so few emotional problems growing up (i judge the emotional state of my automotive engineers by how sadistic they seem to be in wishing any technicians much pain in servicing the car, ie if you need sixteen different tools just to change the spark plugs, someone got an atomic wedgie at the WROOOONG time) BTW, how did you come up with the name bucky? i have an uncle who goes by buck.... yes, i have an Uncle Buck. He is Eeyore Incarnate, and i called him that before i ever found the board here.. so it has nothing to do with NorthWet... but hes the car uncle, no family so he got to play with the cars my dad wanted to play with for the last forty years. my dad kinda got to do SOME of the same stuff.. and we all get to play with the racecars, so its all good. Bucky is my Cars name...LOL ..really long story...but in a nut shell,named after someone I knew...and it just kinda stuck. Thanks for the compliments... I actually like working on Subarus cause they are easy compaired to others.And I have worked on VWs (I still love them though) and old Fords...the 428 CJ is an awesome motor. I had to work on my cars out of nessesity....I am poor and can't afford to drop $500 for this and $500 for that repair..Plus the feeling of accomplishment afterwards can't be expressed. Yes I have a tendency to over react (at least I know I do it and can admit to it). I have owned around 30 cars and Subarus and VWs I will always sware by. I think this 16 y/o should try it himself..its not that hard of a job to do..and what he will learn is priceless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 I keep running into pressure plates with no mark on them ... + 1 on that. I haven't seen a PP mark in 15-20 years... Maybe it is the cheap parts I get? I have never done anything but had the flywheel resurfaced. Any bluing indicates hard-spotting on the flywheel, which will effect how smoothly and well the clutch will engage. Resurfacing has gotten pricey in my area (around $60-80), but my main issue is the waiting for the shop to do it. Local parts houses now offer pre-surfaced flywheels on an exchange basis for about the same price as resurfacing. My first Subaru clutch I tried to do like my Datsun... pull the tranny, no big deal. BIG deal! I wasn't ready for the weight of the 4WD D/R tranny: My Datsun tranny I just slid under and set down on my chest... not something to do with the suby. Learned my lesson, and for my situation far easier to pull the engine. (Others like pulling tranny, or just separating the 2 and working in the gap between.) Daeron is right about the Lego thing. I like my Datsun for that quality, but Subarus are twice as Lego-licious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Resurfacing has gotten pricey in my area (around $60-80), but my main issue is the waiting for the shop to do it. Local parts houses now offer pre-surfaced flywheels on an exchange basis for about the same price as resurfacing. Holy light wallet batman! Last one I did about 2 months ago I took to Napa and it was $30. I dropped it off at 9am, and picked it up at 4pm! And I thougth that was expensive - I was expecting more like $15 - $20. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 bucky: same here, mechanic out of necessity. If my dad hadn't raised me around his "i-can-fix-it" philosophy (he was right, for the record) then i never would have started learning when i did.. but once i got to a point where i finally had a car when i graduated HS, i sure as heck couldnt go affording me a real-life mechanic, even tho my older brother is one! so, to the wrenches i turned. I had actually just begun to give up on ever being more than a competent shadetree when i discovered the subaru, and it showed me exactly how wrong i was when i thought that the automobile, as a combination of integrated subsystems, was just a *tad* beyond my abilities.. good for a goal, but not a goal im ever going to reach. i now believe otherwise.. hopefully that made sense. Northwet: i hear you on the datsuns.. i would agree on the lego-ish proportion, the datsuns about half as simple as the soob... i know youre talkin 510 and im talkin Zcar, but the ones close enough to the other. incidentally, if youre that much of a datsun fan, i _have_ to brag about the fact that my uncle buck actually owns one of the two BRE team 200 roadster racecars.... i forget the numbers, but their first racecar ultimately became their #2 car so to speak.. the other one became the primary car, but my uncle has the first one. :- ) its awesome to have a piece of automotive history. even if its obscure, and not really of much significance anymore (the car has passed thru other hands that did alot of work to it, without a good work ethic.. so its more a conversation piece about what the car was than a fact about what it still is.. again, i hope im making sense) well, thats the second or third time ive "hopes i was making sense" so im finishing this post now, before i get any worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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