samneric Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Hey all, Let me start by thanking everyone who helped out with advice about my Brat repair job. I want to consolodate my previous two threads into a new repair progress thread so everything is in one place: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=67795&page=2 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=69100 So here is the progress report so far: Day 1: Bought my first tool - I'm sure there'll be plenty more . A 10 ton pulling kit: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44900 I took the grill, bezels and bumper off last Wednesday so it would be easier for bodyshops to examine the damage. I also hooked up a friend's Jeep and pulled the control arm forward enough so that I could change the wheel and drive it off my trailer. Not much else so far so here are the latest piccies of it's present state. Will check back in next time some work is done.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 Now... did the control arm get bent because the wheel was hit or because the front end is so out of whack that it caused it to stuff the wheel into the wheel well? If you're into doing this repair yourself, I'll try and help you in the right direction. First off, if you can source an EA81 Brat/coupe/sedan/wagon down there for cheap or free, I'd buy it as long as the front end was good (back end could be smacked to the rear seat for all you care). Then, remove all the sheetmetal from your Brat (ie fender, hood), along with the radiator, everything from the strut tower forward and everything on the core support. Now you can access the damage of your Brat and then take some pics of it. If the damage doesn't go further back then the front of the strut tower, you can cut off the upper frame rails (where the fender bolts too), drill out the spot welds that hold the core support to the lower right frame rail and the spot welds that hold the core support to the upper and lower frame rails on the driver side as well. This will give you all (or most) of what needs to be replaced, off the car. Then access how bad the lower frame rail on that side is. In the pics, it doesn't look too bad but looks can be decieving, especially with a bunch of twisted metal around it. If its straight, then take your parts car, and removed the same metal in the same sort of fashion as you did off of your Brat. Also, another tool you'll want to invest in, and is very cheap, is a tape measure. Granted, you can't be precise with it but it'll help you make sure you got the front end square with the side that wasn't hit. You'll want to measure corner to corner. Before you weld it, clamp it all together with Vise Grips so then you can measure and measure and measure before you weld it up. Find a friend with a welder and weld it back together. Then hang your sheetmetal and if you made sure it was almost perfectly square, you shouldn't have any problems hanging the fender and hood. Oh yeah, I work in a bodyshop:-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75subie Posted December 24, 2006 Share Posted December 24, 2006 unless you plan on making it a show truck i wouldn`t go crazy with it. bend everything back to where it needs to be or close to it. wheel alignments can be adjusted. if you are still going to put the wrx drivetrain in it, it would be cool to find a striaght wrx front end (jdm front clip or something) and adapt it onto there so that the ej20t will bolt right in, and from the front it will look like a wrx:grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted December 24, 2006 Author Share Posted December 24, 2006 Now... did the control arm get bent because the wheel was hit or because the front end is so out of whack that it caused it to stuff the wheel into the wheel well? The wheel must have hit something because there is a tear in the rim wall. I think the car hit the truck wheel which patterned itself on the fender. The impact shunted the car in a sideways direction and the rim must have hit the hollowed out rim if the truck. Anyways, the leading arm bent the most and the control arm twisted back a little at the bushing where it attaches to the cross member.There arnt any Brats in the junkyards down here and my other one is from Florida so the frame is rusted through where the bumper fastens.Another member has kindly offered the front end of a wagon so I will do the swap in the spring time. At the moment I am going to just pull it back to shape so I can get it rolling quickly.I do need a pulling ram because the pulling kit I bought only spreads ???? Oh and I need some pulling clamps also.Keep y'all posted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 For pulling clamps, I have found some modified Vise-Grips do very well. I welded on a hook to the handle of a larger pair, welded on a body file for lead and metal to the jaws after I cut them into 2 - 1" pieces and voila! The body file pieces give it more of a "bite" to the metal, then the hook gets chained up to the rams we have on our frame rack at the shop and pull pull pull! If anything with that lower frame rail, take it to a shop and have them pull it where it needs to be but tell them thats the ONLY thing you need done. Also, make sure that you have cut off everything that you're replacing so its pretty stright forward for them. They might charge you like 5 hours of frame time for it but I figure that might be easier then trying to replace it from another car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted December 25, 2006 Author Share Posted December 25, 2006 For pulling clamps, I have found some modified Vise-Grips do very well. I welded on a hook to the handle of a larger pair, welded on a body file for lead and metal to the jaws after I cut them into 2 - 1" pieces and voila! I have never welded before - what kind of welder do you recommend for the thin sheet metal of the subies? Is it worth taking classes in welding or can I get a guide from the web and practice on scrap metal - I was always planning on going to night school but I really don't have the time or money right now - house is taking priority. If anything with that lower frame rail, take it to a shop and have them pull it where it needs to be but tell them thats the ONLY thing you need done. Also, make sure that you have cut off everything that you're replacing so its pretty stright forward for them. They might charge you like 5 hours of frame time for it but I figure that might be easier then trying to replace it from another car. My body shop of choice (they did a great job on a fender bender of mt wrex) quoted $400 for the frame pull but they simply wouldn't touch it at the moment - they are backed up till the end of Jan. You really wouldn't understand the situation down here - its surreal - there are crashed cars on the sides of streets everywhere. Its like a post-appocalyptical state that everyone is driving in. Most people are so dazed they can't focus on driving... Bizzare. Anyway, I will pull it the best I can and either take it back to the body shop when I have the new fender/hood/rad support and when they have less work on. Is there a web site that will match your bodies paint color and send you gallon or 5 cans of paint? I will spray the parts myself after I have mustered up a paint booth. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRhere Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 quote Is there a web site that will match your bodies paint color and send you gallon or 5 cans of paint? I will spray the parts myself after I have mustered up a paint booth. end quote Any place that sells auto paint should be able to match the color, even make it match the sun-faded old paint look. Color code for paint should be on radiator support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted December 27, 2006 Author Share Posted December 27, 2006 Day 2: Bought another tool http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33611 I pulled the towing hook back into shape and put a big bolt through the frame in the big hole between the bumper mount holes. I gave it a good pull, there was some creaking and groaning for a while before I released the pressure. Not sure if it did any good, it certainly didn't seem to straighten the frame but it may have started the process. I think I am going to have to put a jack stand behind the crumple, fill the gap in the frame (maybe with a trimmed block of wood) and then press the front end down against the fulcrum of the jackstand. Prior to pulling, I got under the car, removed the left and right splash guards and took comparison pictures of the frame warp on each side: Left (good) side first...(the buckle point is circled in red) Right (bad).. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 So ok, what I'd like to see is a pic of the passenger side without any sheetmetal on it (ie the fender and hood) so I can get a better look of how badly the subframe is bent down or up. Then I can determine which way the fram will need to be bent and some advice on how to do it. It seems that since the frame isn't that badly out of wack, that this will probably go back fairly easily, especially since there's a plug hole right where the bent portion is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 So ok, what I'd like to see is a pic of the passenger side without any sheetmetal on it (ie the fender and hood) so I can get a better look of how badly the subframe is bent down or up. Then I can determine which way the fram will need to be bent and some advice on how to do it. It seems that since the frame isn't that badly out of wack, that this will probably go back fairly easily, especially since there's a plug hole right where the bent portion is. Cab, I really don't have time to do the full fender swap at this point so I don't want to take anything off. In the meantime I am just straightening out as much as I can with the parts in place so I can get the headlights and bumper back on. When I tackle the proper project, I will be glad to take piccies of the frame under the fender. In the meantime, I took the hood off so I could pull and push in various directions. I have added some shots of the battery area and another looking directly down the front frame. I can take more shots of the fender closer to the windshield where there is a kink if you like.... Here are the piccies: Battery area - I'm not sure of the shots show this but the battery mounting plate and the inner fender underneath it where pushed over the frame rail. You should be able to see the whole of the frame rail if looking from above but the inner fender wall seems to have pushed the mount an inch towards the engine.... Here is the shot down the length of the frame rail.... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted December 28, 2006 Author Share Posted December 28, 2006 Day 3: The frame push! Trimmed down a length of old hard wood and hammered it into the frame. Used the spreader to push it down. Also used the puller to pull the top of the radiator support forward, then tried pushing the fender sideways but ended up losing push power as the car started rolling slightly with the force. Need to figure another way to secure.... Anyways, some more shots.... Before: Fulcrum: Overhead support: Before the big squeeze: During: After: Sideways: Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUVMYBRAT Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 hey Sam. Slow down a bit. Biggest reason most of this happened was because of a forward moving accident i.e. this happened as the car was moving in a forward motion. In order to remove damage it must me pulled out. You've got alot of ambition but pushing and pulling side to side and up and down wil get you nowhere. 400.00 bucks for an inexperienced bodyman is not bad to pay someone else to get frame staight. damage in, damage out is the rule of thumb. if your going to do it yourself, set up a way to pull the frame rail forward AS your pushing and pulling, you'll get much better results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 hey Sam. Slow down a bit. Biggest reason most of this happened was because of a forward moving accident i.e. this happened as the car was moving in a forward motion. In order to remove damage it must me pulled out. You've got alot of ambition but pushing and pulling side to side and up and down wil get you nowhere. 400.00 bucks for an inexperienced bodyman is not bad to pay someone else to get frame staight. damage in, damage out is the rule of thumb. if your going to do it yourself, set up a way to pull the frame rail forward AS your pushing and pulling, you'll get much better results. Holy cow are you back in Chey-town yet Bill? Bill has a good point. Listen to him, he's a veteran at bodywork:clap: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted December 30, 2006 Author Share Posted December 30, 2006 Holy cow are you back in Chey-town yet Bill? Bill has a good point. Listen to him, he's a veteran at bodywork:clap: Thanks Bill, Cab. I'd be glad to pay the $400 to have the frame straightened but the guy who guestimated that price on reflection came to the conclusion (in a stressed out voice while talking to one customer on the phone, a co-worker in the shop) "I am backed up with vehicles until the end of Jan, I'm not going to fool with it." This sentiment is echoed by all bodyshops in town. It's hard to picture but to give you an idea, imagine a whole town entered a demolition derby using vehicles no older than '05 models. All the cars are smacked up and are towed to all body shops in town. They now have 2 months of work ahead of them. Each vehicle estimate at least $6000-$10000 in damage. I come along and say "Can you put my 21 year old, no parts available, car and $400 dollar job ahead of the others". They are all going to tell me to piss off (under the stress of 1 year of these demolition derbys occuring once a week of course ). So if I want my Brat back on the road, I am going to have to do it myself. I'm not even going to mention the lack of roofers, plumbers, electricians contributing to my other workloads e.g. putting up a new 25 square vermont slate roof (on new individually nailed down 1x8 rough cut planks as compared to plywood the slate roof monkeys down here are putting down as decking before charging $45,000 for a roof that will warp and lose tiles in 30 years as the glue in the plywood unadheres - woa - another $45,000 to replace the first novice built, disposable roof). Oh ************ - perhaps I just did mention them Anyways, I appologise for the rant - got a lot off my chest - the point is I can't use a body shop right now. Bill - Thanks for the advice on the forward pull / sideways, downwards push combo. I'll need to buy another hydraulic pump but thats no biggy. I'm sure I'll figure some way of securing the car while the forces of multiple planes are applied.... Gulp - back to the drawing board - although designing the solution is the fun part - making it happen is the stressful bit. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldDiggerRoo Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Honestly, in your case.... I would get the car staight enough to mount a fender, get a hood to shut and bumper on and ride it until the body shops can have a serious go at it. I personally have bent several of these cars out of shape, and they can be far from perfect and still most all of the panels fit well and function as they should. I WOULDN't go trying to straighten the inner fender by pushing the car sideways though, let that be until the bodyman can get ahold of it. Beyond pulling out the core support a little more, I think you could likely mount everything back on as it sits now. This is my former wagon the first time I wrecked it, I pulled the front end out with a hammer and a tow rope hooked to the back of my 280Z. Here is the same car with sheetmetal put back on it. The headlight bezels themselves were all that was holding the grille in and and headlight frameworks were very creatively adjusted to get them looking right. I also had this car looking as well (with the same fender no less!) You seem like you just need something to "get you by" for now. Once you get a good hood/fender/bumper back on it really the only noticable thing is gonna be the lower valence, but who looks down there anyway. It won't be perfect, but it will serve you until a bodyshop can work on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share Posted June 29, 2007 Thread revival! OK so my hand was forced a little.... So all my vehicles are presently off the road and I'm standing, waiting for the bus to arrive. 1 hour passes and I'm still standing, wait..... Anyway, infuriated. Screw the RTA I say, I mean I've had 2 months of this crap up to my eyeballs, I'm getting one of my cars rolling again before I go mad..... I figure my '85 Brat is closest to momentum. The skinny: I swapped out the leading arm from my other Brat and got the wheel back in the middle of the arch, 1 jump start from a freindly neighbour and its chocks away down the street for a road test - bar hood! Jumping banana time! So tomorrow, I follow GoldDiggerRoo's footsteps and fanangle my headlights and bumber back on - The job's a good 'un. At least until I get some more cash to finish off pulling the rest of the body into shape.... Mas jumping bananas! And its my birthday to boot My roo's re-birthday! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samneric Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 Quickfix final shot Thanks to 'DiggerRoo for the inspiration Thanks to all others in the thread for the final fix advice - this will happen a few months down the line when I have the change to get the frame pulled properly :cool: (also fixed bad photo links from the start of the thread - whoops) Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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