BLACKSTONE Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 So I have this 92 legacy 2.2 AWD, Auto It has been haveing a very strange problem that I have not been able to resolve by reading other posts on this matter. (200k non-tubo Wagon) Between 0 and 1500 rpms the car has now power and runs like theres a load on it, but will not rev above 1500 rpms unless you vigorously tap and finess the gas peddle until it reaches 1500 rpms. After its at that point the car revs awsome, runs smoothe, makes no strange noises and sounds strong. My big problem is that once I stick it in grear, there is no way to get it to 1500 rpms with power to the tranny. If you start in nutral and just hold down the throttle without tapping it it will eventually just bog down and die. It will hold a idle, but once pressing down on the gas makes it want to bog down and die. I am pretty mechanicly inclined, but this one is totally stumping me and I'm running out of things to replace. Here is a list of everything I have replaced. All parts came from 1990 AWD, auto tranny, legacy, with 89k, that I know was running like a top. 1. MAF unit 2. Crank angle sensor 3. Cam angle sensor 4. Temp control sensor 5. Knock sensor 6. O2 Sensor 7. Plugs, wires, coil pack, fuel filter 8. fuel pump, and sending unit 9. Tranny 10. TPS 11. Throttle body 12. PCV 13. Checked all vacume lines 14. Idle air controll valve and sensor The weird things I am wondering about: 1. Where is the EGR valve and sylinoid, if there is one? 2. Could the ECU or ECM cause this, if so, where are they located? 3. When pulling the sending unit there seemed to be no gas on that side of the tank, and upon pulling the fuel pump there was gas in that side. Is this normal or should there be gas on both sides at all times? 4. Is there anything else that could cause this kind of problem? Where exactly Any more help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 You may have part of the muffer collasped on the inside, or the cat. converter, I think I would have that checked at Midas. So I have this 92 legacy 2.2 AWD, Auto It has been haveing a very strange problem that I have not been able to resolve by reading other posts on this matter. (200k non-tubo Wagon) Between 0 and 1500 rpms the car has now power and runs like theres a load on it, but will not rev above 1500 rpms unless you vigorously tap and finess the gas peddle until it reaches 1500 rpms. After its at that point the car revs awsome, runs smoothe, makes no strange noises and sounds strong. My big problem is that once I stick it in grear, there is no way to get it to 1500 rpms with power to the tranny. If you start in nutral and just hold down the throttle without tapping it it will eventually just bog down and die. It will hold a idle, but once pressing down on the gas makes it want to bog down and die. I am pretty mechanicly inclined, but this one is totally stumping me and I'm running out of things to replace. Here is a list of everything I have replaced. All parts came from 1990 AWD, auto tranny, legacy, with 89k, that I know was running like a top. 1. MAF unit 2. Crank angle sensor 3. Cam angle sensor 4. Temp control sensor 5. Knock sensor 6. O2 Sensor 7. Plugs, wires, coil pack, fuel filter 8. fuel pump, and sending unit 9. Tranny 10. TPS 11. Throttle body 12. PCV 13. Checked all vacume lines 14. Idle air controll valve and sensor The weird things I am wondering about: 1. Where is the EGR valve and sylinoid, if there is one? 2. Could the ECU or ECM cause this, if so, where are they located? 3. When pulling the sending unit there seemed to be no gas on that side of the tank, and upon pulling the fuel pump there was gas in that side. Is this normal or should there be gas on both sides at all times? 4. Is there anything else that could cause this kind of problem? Where exactly Any more help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKSTONE Posted February 5, 2007 Author Share Posted February 5, 2007 I replaced the front head pipe past the front cat and inspected the back cat, both seem to be fine. I did not replace muffler, but I did run the car around for a second with just the exhaust pulled from behind the front cat and it didn't seem to respond any different :-( I am wondering if the fuel injectors could be playing some kind of role, but it just dosent seem plauseible because of how smoothe it idles and revs once you get it passed the dead spot. But I am going to replace the injectors anyway because I have a extra set and see what happens ( most likely nothing) I also can not locate the ECM. I pulled the glovebox, and carpet on the front passanger side, but it is not there? Anyway thanks for the advise, this car has really been a headace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 It's not the exhaust if it pulls fine above 1500rpm's. Exhaust restrictions would limit the engine's rpms to 1500, then it wouldn't rev any higher. First gen EJ22's don't have EGR. The pcm is under the steering column, silver box, 3 large yellow connectors. Easy swap. The fuel tank has a jet pump of sorts that pumps fuel across the hump in the middle of the tank to keep the fuel pump fed. Any fuel issues would tend to cause problems reving the engine higher. It's acting like the timing is being way retarded untill 1500 rpms, then advancing to normal. Is the check engine light on? If not, does it come on when the key is in the run position, but the engine hasn't been started? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Were the MAF's exactly the same? JECS - JECS or Hitachi - Hitachi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKSTONE Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 Air flow was Jecs to Jecs, and did not change anything when switched. I pulled the codes before I started on the project and got a cam sensor, wich I replaced. Injectors will not swap between the two engines, but I do not think that that is the problem, they did not look cloged, and the engine runs smoothe at higher rpms and Idle. It does seem very much like the timeing is being retarded until it reaches 1500 rpms, so does the pcm control this. What does pcm stand for? either way I will try to change it out and see what happens. So on the jet pump, if it is not receiveing fuel on the sending unit side would this make my car run this way? probibly not being the pump is still getting fuel. Anyway thanks for the help guys, The battle continues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Have you posted here? http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewforum.php?f=5 We have some very very good mechanics there who might be able to further diagnose your problem (it's a first gen Legacy specific forum - not that I doubt anyone's skill here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKSTONE Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 Have you posted here? http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewforum.php?f=5 We have some very very good mechanics there who might be able to further diagnose your problem (it's a first gen Legacy specific forum - not that I doubt anyone's skill here). I will give that a try if I don't get any good feedback on here. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRX1AB Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 this may sound stupid but have you squirted wwd40 or berrymans at the intake whilst it is running? it sounds like a possible super fat vaccume leak, ut I know I am going to getted panned for suggesting it. are all the hoses on corrctly? did the problem start suddenly or has it been gradualyl getting worse? I oce has an escort that had a huge egr pipe missing after I did a motor swap (i was 15) and it ran great above 2k, but hardly at all below and would iddle real y rough. I also had a vanagon do the same thing, it turned out to be a throttle possition seonsor AND a burned wire on the muffler (hte harness ran around the back of the motor) if you squire those things and the revs change then perhaps you have a leak, but it sounds lore like a sensing or engine management issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKSTONE Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 this may sound stupid but have you squirted wwd40 or berrymans at the intake whilst it is running? it sounds like a possible super fat vaccume leak, ut I know I am going to getted panned for suggesting it. are all the hoses on corrctly? did the problem start suddenly or has it been gradualyl getting worse? I oce has an escort that had a huge egr pipe missing after I did a motor swap (i was 15) and it ran great above 2k, but hardly at all below and would iddle real y rough. I also had a vanagon do the same thing, it turned out to be a throttle possition seonsor AND a burned wire on the muffler (hte harness ran around the back of the motor) if you squire those things and the revs change then perhaps you have a leak, but it sounds lore like a sensing or engine management issue. All vacume lines are good, I have not tryed squirting wd around the intake, but I don't really think there is a intake leak, it seems like you would hear one thats causeing this much trouble, plus if you get it above 1500 it pers like a kitten. Today I am going to swap out the pcm, and see if that changes anything. If it doesnt then I am just going to swap engines being everything else has been pretty much gone through. I've even tryed replaceing that brown relay above the fuse box that "SEA#3" had mentioned in another post was giveing legacys problems, but not luv. I bought the car to do a tranny swap and sell, so the car already had the problem when I got it. The person I got it from said that it gradually started getting worse. It is starting to become more trouble that it is worth, but I will win the battle, even if it does take useing my prized ej22 with 80k on it that was going to go into my 86 4x4 6inch lifted hatch, I guess I can always pick up another ej :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKSTONE Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 Turns out the timeing gear on the crank shaft broke and busted a chunk out of the shaft :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Turns out the timeing gear on the crank shaft broke and busted a chunk out of the shaft :-( This one goes into my "Weird problems that I'll hopefully never see, but should remember in case I ever do" file. Thanks for the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Whoa, never would have suspected a physical problem like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Actually, after re-reading the posts, it does make sense. The broken gear (or most likely the woodruff key) would change the timing of the car. It'd be retarded (most likely) so it'd have absolute zero down low, but go good up high. The ECU could compensate @ idle, but most likely couldn't add in enough advance to make it accellerate smoothly. A timing light may have shown this, but as we ALL know hindsight is 20/20. I had a timing belt jump on a Sunbird that caused the same symptoms, but I'd forgot until I saw the resoultion. Hopefully the broken key didn't kill the crankshaft. If the keyway is chewed up, you may be able to weld the gear to the crank, or drill & tap a new gear for some set screws. Going the set screw path I'd drill some holes in the crank to "dog" them into it, that way they CAN'T slip. These are "band aid" solutions tho. The best way to fix this is to replace the crank itself. Be it with a new short block, or just a J/Y crank. My 2cents worth.... that & a buck MIGHT buy ya a cup of coffee:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvdrt Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 edit: would have never guessed that. I was thinking coolant temp sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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