artistic_gore Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Anyway, Last night I finished my tune up (so I thought) by changing my trans fluid and filter and radiator hoses and thermostat. Anywho, the trans seems good now, it's a little stiff but I haven't checked the fluid level beyond adding the recommended 4 quarts. But thats not what Im hear about. Were here to discuss the other side of my tune, the coolant system. How fast does a water pump "go out" does 3 days sound reasonable? I mean from initial suspicion to full on failure. And how do I check. My car has overheated twice and never pegged the heat sensor then yesterday after I completed all of the aformentioned procedures it took about 1/4 mi to totally peg out the sensor. Wrong thermostat, bad pump? Any advice will be appreciated. Oh and I will be ordering a new water pump today, I just want to make sure that this is the last thing I should have to do to her. Thanks, Bryce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickensheets Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 1) t-stat in backwards by chance? 2) air in the cooling system likely. Ispect lower rad hose for kinks, bleed air by filling and using bleed screw on top of radiator. Elevating front of car helps purge bubbles. Do a search for bubbles in cooling system. Is the pump leaking at all? rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I agree with Dickensheets, but only with the air in system, I have never had anypart of the cooling system apart with out having trouble getting it to run cool again, I just let mine idle with radiator cap off and heater on and keep adding coolant as I get room. 1) t-stat in backwards by chance? 2) air in the cooling system likely. Ispect lower rad hose for kinks, bleed air by filling and using bleed screw on top of radiator. Elevating front of car helps purge bubbles. Do a search for bubbles in cooling system. Is the pump leaking at all? rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I do it about like TC. I also agree it is air. Setright had a whole post about how to bleed the system becuase so many folks have had this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I can't speak for 'Roos, but most if not all late model cooling systems need "bled". Parking the car nose high on a hill, or up on ramps/jacks & filling as it warms up is a good idea. The MFRS use the bleed screws, as they don't build them on a hill:rolleyes: The symptoms of air in the system are a rapid heat up, followed by a more rapid cooldown, if left running. It'll cycle like this 2-3 times depending on the outside conditions. After that itll steady at a touch over normal. A water pump WILL leak when it goes bad. If you're not losing large amounts of coolant I'd suspect air in the system. Also I've seen LOTS of posts about having the T-stat in backwards. Which would never allow it to open. One of the few things I really like about american cars these days, the T-stat housing won't fit with the 'stat in backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 One of the few things I really like about american cars these days, the T-stat housing won't fit with the 'stat in backwards. Never doubt the ability of a human being with tools. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 i thought of this on another cooling thread, why haven't they gone to a computer controlled valve instead of a t-stat? everything else it computer controlled. obviously the mechanical ones we're using have worked for 100 years, but imagine how much coolant flow you might have if the computer sensed over heating and opened the valve 100%. cars without a t-stat run much cooler than those with, too cool , because there's less restriction in the pipe at the t-stat location. just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 i thought of this on another cooling thread, why haven't they gone to a computer controlled valve instead of a t-stat? everything else it computer controlled. obviously the mechanical ones we're using have worked for 100 years, but imagine how much coolant flow you might have if the computer sensed over heating and opened the valve 100%. cars without a t-stat run much cooler than those with, too cool , because there's less restriction in the pipe at the t-stat location. just a thought. cost vs value. T stat has been around 100 years, and it works and works well, and is dirt cheap to produce. Just because something CAN be computer controlled doesnt mean it should be. As the emissions gets tighter, then yes you will see an all electric cooling system. Thankfully since the idea of a 48 volt electrical system fell flat on its face (for now) we have a reprive, but it is coming. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech1967 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 i thought of this on another cooling thread, why haven't they gone to a computer controlled valve instead of a t-stat? everything else it computer controlled. obviously the mechanical ones we're using have worked for 100 years, but imagine how much coolant flow you might have if the computer sensed over heating and opened the valve 100%. cars without a t-stat run much cooler than those with, too cool , because there's less restriction in the pipe at the t-stat location. just a thought. They've been working on stuff like that but not cc t-stat. The information I got was computer controlled valves in various areas and one or more variable speed electric pumps like the extra one on the Subaru turbos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Later BMWs have thermostats integrated into engine management. They are quite expensive to replace as you have to change the entire housing. I'm not sure how they work even though I helped change one. Kind of interesting, no hose clamps, the hose just snaps on the later cars and just a couple wires out with a connector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Oh I can just see an electric T-stat! Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to rely on a "dumb" mechanical part. I like the "KISS" principle Keep It Simple & Stupid. Quote, nipper: "Never doubt the ability of a human being with tools" Or underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!:-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artistic_gore Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 Simple, stupid I definately feel that I fit into one of those categories. Anyway, I changed the thermo back to the old one and ran it, no bubbles (I think) It came up to temp but sitting it didn't overheat. I then turned it off and the coolant level instantly dropped and I could see small tufts of ?steam, smoke? coming from the front of the engine/back of the radiator area. I topped off the coolant and took it for a drive and it overheated within 100yds of my house. I may go to the dealer tomorrow to pick up an OEM thermostat and gasket so I can change it as well as the water pump. I will probably also go to the hardware store so I can get a few items to pressure test my radiator, or borrow a test kit from advance auto. Haven't decided yet. I guess since I am cringing at the thought of $22 for the thermostat I will probably have to go the borrow route. If none of the above works I will just do the engine swap on my truck and put the subie by the wayside for a while since it is most likely the HGs, and I don't even want to think about something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Simple, stupid I definately feel that I fit into one of those categories. Anyway, I changed the thermo back to the old one and ran it, no bubbles (I think) It came up to temp but sitting it didn't overheat. I then turned it off and the coolant level instantly dropped and I could see small tufts of ?steam, smoke? coming from the front of the engine/back of the radiator area. I topped off the coolant and took it for a drive and it overheated within 100yds of my house. I may go to the dealer tomorrow to pick up an OEM thermostat and gasket so I can change it as well as the water pump. I will probably also go to the hardware store so I can get a few items to pressure test my radiator, or borrow a test kit from advance auto. Haven't decided yet. I guess since I am cringing at the thought of $22 for the thermostat I will probably have to go the borrow route. If none of the above works I will just do the engine swap on my truck and put the subie by the wayside for a while since it is most likely the HGs, and I don't even want to think about something like that. on the bright side, its a 2.2L so they are fairly robust. If you get it all figured out, do an oil, change too. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artistic_gore Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 on the bright side, its a 2.2L so they are fairly robust. If you get it all figured out, do an oil, change too. nipper Will do. Sorry about the other thread. I honestly was on auto pilot when I wrote that and didn't even realize until I read it this morning. I'll throw out an update tomorrow if I get her running right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Will do. Sorry about the other thread. I honestly was on auto pilot when I wrote that and didn't even realize until I read it this morning. I'll throw out an update tomorrow if I get her running right. thats ok, there are a lot of days when my hands arent connected to the grey matter either nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Fill it again and run it for a while, then do a short spin and refill. If it is no peeing water out some stem may be normal from a recently serviced car. If the thermostat in it is working try leaving it for a while. If it does not lose water on the ground and does not overheat it might be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artistic_gore Posted February 16, 2007 Author Share Posted February 16, 2007 For those of you who do these repairs on a regular basis... This Bud's for you. And I just want to say...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artistic_gore Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 What bubbles should I be looking for? should I be looking for a glub, glub, glub, kind of slow bubble or a faster boiling bubble. Also my exhaust is blowing very white. The first style bubble is what I am experiencing, but this is right after startup. Thanks, Bryce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 What bubbles should I be looking for? should I be looking for a glub, glub, glub, kind of slow bubble or a faster boiling bubble. Also my exhaust is blowing very white. The first style bubble is what I am experiencing, but this is right after startup. Thanks, Bryce White exhaust in winter is nothing to get excited about ..... because its winter. You will get a glub glub when the Tstat first opens and thats it, then you usually have to top off. If you get lots of little bubbles then you have a problem. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artistic_gore Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 Ok, I'll take it for a drive tomorrow to see if it all worked out or not. To be honest I was excited when it started. Thanks for the help nipper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 <<Ok, I'll take it for a drive tomorrow to see if it all worked out or not.>> before you take it out for a spin and overheat it for the 4th time, tell us how exactly you are bleeding the air out of the coolant system? 80% of the reason why people blow there head gasket is improper bleeding of the coolant system, which in turn, overheats the engine, and that will break down the headgasket. you won't believe how man "come backs" i get at my shop from people either messing with something that they shouldn't be or a shop that has no clue. subaru engines are very tempermental when it comes to overheating. be careful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 <<Ok, I'll take it for a drive tomorrow to see if it all worked out or not.>> before you take it out for a spin and overheat it for the 4th time, tell us how exactly you are bleeding the air out of the coolant system? 80% of the reason why people blow there head gasket is improper bleeding of the coolant system, which in turn, overheats the engine, and that will break down the headgasket. you won't believe how man "come backs" i get at my shop from people either messing with something that they shouldn't be or a shop that has no clue. subaru engines are very tempermental when it comes to overheating. be careful! Yes no test driving, what i said should be done with the cap OFF and the car cold. No removing the cap on a hot cooling system either. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artistic_gore Posted February 17, 2007 Author Share Posted February 17, 2007 Yes no test driving, what i said should be done with the cap OFF and the car cold. No removing the cap on a hot cooling system either. nipper The first time I took it straight, the second time as in two days or so ago I let it run without the cap until it came up to temp and then turned the car off and refilled the coolant. I wasn't going to go for a spin but I got the best of me and figured what the hell. I ran it last night with the cap off but haven't got it up to temp yet. I started glub glubbing and I cut it off and posted my question about the bubbles. The air bleed screw is already dead from what I can tell. I found it's location when I checked the manual but then I cleaned the area to get at it I found this lovely conical shape staring back at me where there once was a phillips slot. This morning I am going to go put my fans and overflow can back on and run the car up to temp with the cap off, topping it up every so often and then when I am sure there's no way in hell it will take more coolant I will test drive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 <<This morning I am going to go put my fans and overflow can back on and run the car up to temp with the cap off, topping it up every so often and then when I am sure there's no way in hell it will take more coolant I will test drive it.>> thats the problem i see all the time on here and at the shop. your not going to get all the air out of the coolant system by just filling through the radiator. here is what you do: start with a cold engine, take the top radiator hose off the radiator, leaving the other end connected to the engine. take rad cap off fill coolant slowly through rad hose into engine block when the coolant starts coming out of the hose, the engine is full, put the hose back on the radiator now you can fill the radiator up, fill slowly while car is running when it gets to the top, watch bubbles come out. cap off radiator only when coolant starts coming out. let the car run for a while until themostat opens ( you can place your hand on the upper rad hose and feel coolant pass through, thats when you know the thermostat opens up fill overflow to proper level take the car out for a spin and see if it overheats again if this doesnt work for you, you might have blown your headgasket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 ok i dont mean to pick on anyone, but i am curious about something. i was always taught to fill the raditor with car running (slowly) wait for the thermostat to open (a big glub or two) then slowly fill the cooling system and the overflow if so equipted. I was also taught to do this with the heat on (some cars use a water valve to control temp). Put the cap on, Drive around the block, then after the car cools off check the fluid again. I have done this on every car (ramblers to subarus) and never had a problem. I have never had a problem with air in the cooling system. Are mechanics in a rush or something to get the job done, or has something else changed? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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