Digger19 Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 I have a 97 Outback with 2.5 DOHC. I am pumping oil out all over the place, and most of it ends up on the exhaust. Can't really tell where it is coming from. Starting to get embarrassing. I was thinking about pulling the engine, changing the cam, crank, etc oil seals, and while the engine is out replacing the head gaskets as well as I am starting to consume about a 1/2 liter of coolant every 10000k. Unless there is something more obvious I should be looking at thats easier?? In any case, how long to pull the engine, change the seals and head gaskets and get the engine back in. I have 4 days off coming up and want to do it then. Is it workable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 23, 2007 Share Posted April 23, 2007 head gaskets can be done in a long day...the caveat being...if everything goes smooth. on a job that large that's not always the case. the biggest kink in the process is having the heads machined. i like having an extra set already done and ready to go. it's nice getting started and already having a head or two on by the end of the first day. having to wait for parts from a machine shop is annoying. if time is an issue, get an engine ahead of time and do an engine swap. either a rebuilt from CCR or a used one and replace the headgaskets on that one...just more expensive options for you. i'd also make sure this is all necessary. are you sure it's headgaskets that's loosing coolant? you only mentioned coolant loss...headgaskets would also have overheating symptoms. you could be looking at much easier fixes - a hose, thermostat, radiator, etc. and...the only seal that requires engine removal that would puke the kind of oil you're talking about is the rear main seal. and those are the least likely to leak on a subaru...sooo, i'd make sure before assuming the worst on both items. if it is indeed leaking coolant internally...ie, headgaskets then definitely address this sooner rather than later. coolant in the oil does bad things to bearings in the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 I have a 97 Outback with 2.5 DOHC. I am pumping oil out all over the place, and most of it ends up on the exhaust. Can't really tell where it is coming from. Starting to get embarrassing. I was thinking about pulling the engine, changing the cam, crank, etc oil seals, and while the engine is out replacing the head gaskets as well as I am starting to consume about a 1/2 liter of coolant every 10000k. Unless there is something more obvious I should be looking at thats easier?? In any case, how long to pull the engine, change the seals and head gaskets and get the engine back in. I have 4 days off coming up and want to do it then. Is it workable? This is easy, If the car is not overheating its not the HGs. You dont say how many miles are on this (bad). You need to replace all the seals in the front of the engine. you have one or all of the following seals bad Cam Seals Main Seal Oil Pump Seal. This is a fairly common subaru thing (i've been there myself). While your there you should do the timing belt, tensioner, idler and water pump too (if it hasnt been done in a while). To find the leak you need to wash the bottom of the engine. Use a do it yourself car wash or a garden hose and a commercial engine cleaner. Not everything is the HG's fault, and oil leaks on this year are rarely the fault of the HG. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballitch Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 the crappy thing is it could be the rear main seal, which requires the engine being pulled. however, the HG set for that motor is cheap on ebay right now, you even get the cam seals. grab a rear main seal and the hg set off ebay soon, that way they get to you by the time your vacation is coming up. rent or buy an engine hoist and stand ($40 for the stand at harbor freight, money WELL spent) grab a new thermostat while your at it, it wont hurt. ~Josh~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 the crappy thing is it could be the rear main seal, which requires the engine being pulled. however, the HG set for that motor is cheap on ebay right now, you even get the cam seals. grab a rear main seal and the hg set off ebay soon, that way they get to you by the time your vacation is coming up. rent or buy an engine hoist and stand ($40 for the stand at harbor freight, money WELL spent) grab a new thermostat while your at it, it wont hurt. ~Josh~ SIGH Do not buy headgaskets on ebay. Period. There are others here that have bought them on ebay and gotten burned. Also old stock is solf on ebay, not the latests revisions in the design. There is only one place HG's should be bought and thats the dealership. There are also people who have bought HG's from auto part stores and failed, Apex comes to mind. Remeber you get what you pay for, and this is going to be alot of work. Dont go blindly replacing parts without doing a compression check. You are leaking so much oil you may be leaking coolant also. You may have a leaking water pump. DO a compression test first. And yes i forgot about the the rear plate on the back of the engine that is probably leaking. This plate is plastic and needs to be replaced with a metal one (a dealer part). Rule of thumb with ebay parts, the more work there is to replace the part, the cheaper it is in the long run to get the part from the dealer. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subhuman Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 My 97 OB needed cam cover seals and oil pan seal at about 200,000 kms, an easy job. The 97 cam cover and oil pan uses a tube of silicone for sealant. I agree with nipper on the rest of the stuff you should do while the engine is out (ie water pump, main seal, oil pump seal et al) and to NOT to get any of your gaskets off of eBay. Definately a weekend job too. Cheers and good luck! sb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger19 Posted April 24, 2007 Author Share Posted April 24, 2007 SIGH And yes i forgot about the the rear plate on the back of the engine that is probably leaking. This plate is plastic and needs to be replaced with a metal one (a dealer part). nipper The car has 180000K. What is this plate and can it be changed without removing the engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 well remove engine or transmission, your choice. Its on the rear of the engine. I forget hwat its called now, i think the oil seperator plate. Its a common thing to leak as they were originally made of plastic. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 check out # 34. is this it? 33) REAR MAIN SEAL 34) REAR MAIN SEAL RETAINER 35) PULLEY 36) OIL PAN 37) OIL PICK-UP 38) OIL PUMP 39) FRONT CRANK SEAL 40) INNER ROTOR 41) OUTER ROTOR 42) OIL PUMP COVER Description Year MSRP Price Core Price Your Price Rear main seal, impreza, legacy - 1.8l, 2.0l, 2.2l - 1.8L, 2.0L, 2.2L 95-05 $11.93 $8.59 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOMAD327 Posted April 24, 2007 Share Posted April 24, 2007 The suggestion to degrease and inspect in a day or two is sound. It's very common to have a front crank seal leak on this engine, and also common to have cam seals leak. On my 99 2.5, it was one miserable $3 crankshaft seal, at about 80,000 miles. The rubber was baked rock hard and not sealing at all. The one seal leaking allowed the entire undercarriage to be wetted down with oil. Right next to the oil filter looking underneath, there are two short, round, vertical metal rods. These are actually the bottom part of the oil pump body, and they will be very oily if the front seal is leaking. After a degrease, you may also see that it is valve covers that are leaking. The oil separator plate on the rear of the engine can be a huge oil leak, but it does not seem to be a problem on every car the way the front end seals eventually seem to be. The reason to look at this systematically, is that you can do the front end work first, without doing any work that will automatically need to be redone later if another problem is found. The valve covers obviously can be done separately without removing the engine, but are usually not a source of big oil leaks. Generally. If the front and underside of the motor is oily, it’s the front seal. This is because air flow under the car carries drips to the rear. An oil leak on the back of the engine will normally not cause oil to be all over the front half of the engine. The front end service is easy to do with the motor in the car, but it requires timing belt removal to access the seal. There is a lot of info here about sealing the oil pump, and replacing the timing belt and tensioner. The crank seal is actually pressed into the front of the oil pump body behind the crank timing gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted April 25, 2007 Share Posted April 25, 2007 From your description and the amount of oil you are loosing your problem is #34 on that pic. The oil seperator plate (14 bucks). And yes you have to pull the engine to get to it. 99% sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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