timmckee Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 1995 Legacy (EJ22) CEL came on and the codes were for a misfire in cylinders 1 and 4. I did a compression check and had low compression in 1 and 3 cyl's (95psi) and 2 and 4 were around 160 psi. Trying to save a few bucks and some work I only changed the head gasket, on the side with low compression. I also put in new intake manifold and exhaust gaskets on both sides (all non OEM) Threw everything back together and took it out for a test drive. Got a block from the house and the engine died and the temp gauge pinned itself way past hot. I got the car home and started trouble shooting the temp gauge. It would stay pinned even with the car off. Seems to be okay now, I think it was grounding out somewhere but I haven't been able to figure out where. While trouble shooting the gauge I noticed water spitting out the exhaust pipe. I figured that I screwed up the head gasket job so I checked the compression again. All 4 cylinders were in the 160psi range but the #2 cylinder spark plug hole was wet, as was the spark plug. The side I never worked on! No bubbles coming out the rad or any water in the oil. I'm thinking cracked head but I can't really say what caused it. The initial run after finishing the job was short, I warmed up the engine for 7-8 minutes, checked the water level in the rad, then drove about a block before it died. Any advice, suggestions, ideas? A buddy at work has an adapter so I can pressure test the rad/cooling system. I'll be doing that tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Sounds like you may have air in the coolant system. Did you jack the front as high as possible when you filled the coolant and then fill it very slowly? If air is in the system, it will not move out on its own most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Double check your cam timing. We had another thread here an older gen and it was exactly the same as you and it was cam timing. The temp issue is trapped air .. NEVER DRIVE THE (or any car) CAR WITH A PEGGED TEMP GAUGE! But .... You may have had a perfectly fine HG, but now you may have blown it again. You need to change the oil, as the oil may have been cooked too. When an aluminum engine overheats, several things happen. The alumunum heads can warp, the steel piston sleeve can move, you can blow the head gasket. I hope you didnt cook the engine, as that can quickly turn an aluminum engine to scrap. Anytime you try to save yourself work, you end up doing twice as much work the next time to correct the first time. If the engine overheated the first time from a blown HG the heads should have been checked for flatness, both of them. HG's are like shocks or brakes, you dont do just one wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmckee Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 I just raised the car up 8" on ramps and no change in the coolant level. Ran it for a few minutes, cranked the heater and squeezed the return hose. Still no change in the coolant level. However, with the cap off the level does slowly rise in the neck of the fill hole, but no bubbles. I changed the head gasket because of the low compression, not overheating. As far as I know the engine never did overheat. When I pulled the timing belt off at the begining of the job I noticed the cam was off by about 3 teeth. I don't know if this is enough to cause the low compression so I went ahead with the gasket replacement anyways. When I reinstalled the timing belt all the marks were aligned. Maybe I wasn't clear in my first post, but I never drove the car with the temp gauge pegged. It was about mid range on the gauge when suddenly the engine died and then the gauge pegged. I suspected a ground and when I started poking around, wiggling wire harnesses would make it go down and then back to max again. So I don't think the engine overheated. I just idled the engine for about 10 minutes and then took it up to 2500 rpm for about a minute. At 2500rpm the rev's would momentarily drop about 500rpm and the temp gauge would jump up about 1/10 the scale and drop back down just as fast. It did this last time right before it died. Also the cooling fans aren't kiciking in and I still have plenty o' liquid puking out the exhaust. What's going on? Any help is greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 [...]When I pulled the timing belt off at the begining of the job I noticed the cam was off by about 3 teeth. I don't know if this is enough to cause the low compression[...]If I remember correctly, the crank sprocket has 24 teeth, the cam ones have 48. That translates to 15 degrees per tooth at the crank, and 7.5 degrees per tooth at a cam. Three cam teeth would therefore equal 22.5 degrees, easily enough to explain the compression loss. [...]so I went ahead with the gasket replacement anyways. When I reinstalled the timing belt all the marks were aligned.Any time a belt jumps, the appropriate thing to do is replace it with a new one, and probably change the idlers and tensioner as well. Unfortunately, there's nothing "good" that can cause water to be coming out the exhaust (assuming that it isn't just a lot of condensation). Compression testing sometimes won't readily reveal certain problems, but a leak-down test often will. See: http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/EngineTestInfo.pdf Also, some cracks, etc., don't show up until the engine is sufficiently warm. As to the head gaskets, using OEM ones and the proper head-bolt tightening procedure is critical to getting a good seal, even if the mating surfaces are flat; if they're not, or something isn't clean or got scratched, trouble can be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 What if it is nothing more than a leaking intake manifold gasket on the driver's side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmckee Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 I did put a new timing belt in and gave all the pulleys a good inspection. How would a manifold leak cause condensation in the exhaust? Running lean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 What if it is nothing more than a leaking intake manifold gasket on the driver's side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I did put a new timing belt in and gave all the pulleys a good inspection. How would a manifold leak cause condensation in the exhaust? Running lean? Time to recheck and replace the pullies. Just looking at them is not enough. Once they heat up the can expand and get loose, especially with a brand new belt. this is a common mistake. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmckee Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 Ok, so the timing might be off and that's affecting the engine at higher RPM's? and causing it to run poor creating the condensation in the exhaust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Yes yes and maybe. Poor combustion is ineffecient. Even if you do have a bad HG, its not burning the coolant so its passing more water then vapor. You can not tell if you have a blown HG by the water dripping out of the exhaust pipe. First get your timing right, replace the puullies. Next do a compression test again and see whats happening. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmckee Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 Hmmmm, what to do, what to do. Well, since I might be taking the timing belt off to change out a HG anyways, I think I'll just check the timing for now. If it hasn't jumped a tooth or two, then at least I know it's not a timing issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 My thinking is since the left cylider head is now leaking water and it didn't until the intake manifold was removed, and since the intake manifold has a water crossover between the 2 heads, it seems to me the water in the cylinder problem is being caused by a leaking leftside intake gasket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmckee Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 John - I'm not sure I understand where the coolant could be getting in to the valves/head. As I remember it, the only openings on the head where the manifold bolts on are for the combustion air, no coolant passages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 [...]the intake manifold has a water crossover between the 2 heads[...]Sorry, but the crossover isn't integral to the intake manifold; it's a separate piece, beneath the manifold, at least on EJ22 and EJ25 engines I'm familiar with. See the picture linked to in: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=390049 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmckee Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 Okay, so per Murphy's rule, the first thing I should have checked but didn't was the ground wire on the intake manifold. I gave 'er a giggle and she stalled the engine. The bolt was only finger tight. On to problemo numero dos - the water in the exhaust. I'll keep poking around and post an update if I find anything conclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmckee Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share Posted May 17, 2007 Well after driving approx 200km's there's no appreciable difference in the coolant level and there's no more water coming out of the exhaust. I think it was just a winter's worth of condensation built up in the exhaust pipe/muffler. Lot's of worrying for nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Congratulations on resolving the problem(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.