new to the your world with a bad engine

[joebmx]

I was in need of a new car and wanted to understand what it was that all subaru owners feel for their cars so I went and picked up a 87 GL with 199K for $200. It is clean and runs surprisingly well depite the fact that it had a puddle of anti freeze on top of the passenger side head after a little drive.

It hasn't overheated, it haven't noticed oil in the coolant, and it runs absoultely fine. The guy I bought it from said it needed a head gasket, though I am no experienced mechaninc can understand. So how hard is it to do this job? I have a Hayes manual which doensn't make it look very easy despite having spoken with a few folks who say it is very easy.

Should I just start tearing apart the head? With it being on the passsenger side and do i even need to remove any major pieces besides intake/exhaust and some vaccum lines. I want to get this car driving asap so i can use it for the summer although right now I don't want to get in too deep on projects . Any thoughts you have would be appreciated.

 

And by the way depite it being a $200 broken car I am already enjyoing driving it.

[joebmx]

ps.

 

any thoughts on what repair manual I should be using? I have a hayes but am not liking it thus far.

[Gloyale]

Things like a leaking waterpump or or thermostat housing or radiator hose can all leave a puddle up top. especscially if driven at speed for a bit, the coolant blows back onto the motor. I'd first make sure that it actually needs a headgasket.

 

Does it do/have any of the following symtoms?:

 

overheat?

Dense grey smoke out the tailpipe?

Any water in the oil?

Wet sparkplugs when you remove them?

 

If all of these are no, then check compression. If the compression is good I'd bet on an external leak, perhaps the intake gaskets? Or a hose or waterpump?

 

Replacing the headgasket is realatively easy but certainly no small job. It's time consuming and if you have no experience can be daunting. I wouldn't go tearing down you're motor unless it is overheating or otherwise can be confirmed to have a bad HG.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Yes, 1st make sure you really need the gasket. If the car is running fine, and not overheating I doubt its a blown gasket. Another tell tale sign of a head gasket would be white smoke in your exhaust... or exhaust in your radiator.

 

I would suggest performing a compression test on all four cylinders before you do anything. If all 4 cylinders test out okay (i believe 130 to 150psi per cyl) then its probably something stupid simple and not a gasket.

 

-Brian

[matts87glsedan]

my puddle on top was the intake manifold gasket.

[psylosyfer]

my puddle on top was the intake manifold gasket.

Same here, passenger side intake gasket, (of course I changed both), Look carefully there are several possibilites. heater hoses, carb preheater hose,

temp sender, etc.

[joostvdw]

another easy way to check for headgasket failure is to remove the sparkplugs and shine with a torch through the plug hole, line up the piston so you can see it, check all four pistons this way,

 

if the piston is clean, the gasket leaks at that cilinder, if the piston is blackened and has carbon build-up, and if there is no pressure buildup in the cooling system (overflowing overflow tank ) your gaskets are fine.

[joebmx]

I am at my girlfriends house so I don't have any tools to start pulling plugs to look in the cylinder but I did pull the wires while checking some other things and wouldn't you know it, when i pulled the wire for (i think) the no. 1 cyclinder nothing happened, every other plug made my idle drop significantly.

It is for sure getting spark I can only hope the plug is fouled and not firing otherwise I have some more issues. I will be getting my hands on a compression tester in a day or so. Is there anything else I should be looking for at this time?

 

As for my saying earlier that the car seemed to run well I guess I had no idea what a 90hp, 200k mile, 20 yr old subaru running on only 3 cylinders in hilly Seattle was capable of. More and more I am convinced. Let's hope I can get this thing going for real.

[DaveT]

A few things:

 

Check all 6 coolant hoses. It is better to replace them than have one fail. overheat due to low coolant = head gasket job. Sometimes not immediatly, but sooner or later, depending how bad.

 

Check the fins on the radiator. IF the fine little fins are not attached to the tubes, replace the radiator, same reason as above. The fins support the flat tubes. If the fins are missing, the tubes flex more than they are supposed to and stress fracture.

 

Timing belts & idlers. Not fatal, but they break without warning, and you're parked.

 

The factory service manuals are pricey, but by far the best.

[Tom63050]

Check all 6 coolant hoses.

 

Upper and lower radiator hoses; intake and outgo heater hoses; and I think you also mean the two little hoses attached to the intake manifold? I had one of those leak on me. A little pinhole leak that only spewed coolant after the car warmed up.

[Gloyale]

A little pinhole leak that only spewed coolant after the car warmed up.

 

Yeah, it's important to remember that these engines are flat. So the hoses on top are nearly the top of the water column in the engine. When they leak, often it isn't a drip of liquid, it's a spray of steam. Usually not occurring until the engine is very warm. For about $20 you can replace all of the coolant hoses(including the small ones to the carb base/throttlebody base) Well worth the investment.

[misledxcracker]

My suggestions off the top of my head...

 

Ditch Haynes. I've had better luck with Chilton myself in a pinch, but I prefer How To Keep Your Subaru Alive (HTKYSA) and the Factory Service Manual (FSM) which are available for download as PDFs. Search for them around the forum.

 

Get the engine going, of course. Thats not TOO hard on the wallet, ESPECIALLY in the Subaru "heartland". Even if you do have to replace the longblock, its still not as bad as it could be with other models of cars.

 

Replace all the basics that have to do with the cooling system, if you dont know the history. Radiator, new radiator hoses, heater hoses, thermostat, water pump, and maybe add some Water Wetter for kicks. It'll set you back some, but one thing Subaru's hate to do is overheat. I'd say $300 TOPS for everything in this department, based on prices I've got. Your results may vary, depending on where you shop.

 

While torn into the front of the engine, go ahead and replace the idlers, tensioners, timing belts and V-belts. Reseal the oil pump. Pop in some new cam seals, and a crank seal. $250 TOPS, again your results may vary.

 

Is it an automatic? Three speed? Replace the modulator, its a cheap investment, and it'll prevent transmission fluid gumming up your intake and causing BS, believe me it sucks. If you're inclined, go ahead and service the governor as well.

 

Replace vacuum hoses that are brittle, or just plain old. Better yet, get them all replaced for worry-free "comfy" driving. It'll help out a good deal, and it's fairly cheap to do it.

 

Get hold of a multimeter and test ALL of your sensors. Run a D-Check diagnostic procedure (search around) and repair your problems as necessary. This can become tedious at times, especially in SPFI land. Be prepared for some cursing and plenty of beer drinking.

 

Make sure the charging system is up to snuff, replace as necessary.

 

It's just like ANY high mileage car, except... The Subaru will last longer

[daeron]

misledxcracker hit the nails on the heads.

 

One thing I will point out; this is METRIC sized vacuum hose, so make sure you get the right size ()

 

A cheap multimeter is worth its weight in gold, go to harbor frieght and get one if you dont already have one.

 

All of the "jobs" he listed can be done nickel and dime at a time; the single most expensive part is a new radiator, and the single most difficult job is a new water pump/timing belt/seals. The belt/pump/seal job will probably wind up costing more in parts than just the rad, but you can buy a part at a time and believe me, it is WELL worth it. Otherwise you ARE looking at headgaskets being needed down the road.. Subarus do not like to over heat, and after 20 years, 200K miles, and an unknown amnount of use and abuse, the factory equipped cooling system is no longer in good shape. Evaluate it, run your hand over the surface of the hot radiator and look for cool spots (indicating that there are clogged spots in the rad, not good) check for fin rot, and if the radiator doesn't pass ith flying colors replace it.

 

Also, the USRM (top right corner of the screen, click USRM, Ultimate Subaru Repair Manual, user submitted, use at own risk, MAJOR RESOURCE) and the FSMs are much more helpful than the haynes book. I LOVE haynes books in general, but the one for the subarus just plain sucks. http://ch601.org/engines.htm go there, find the two EA82 files and download them. Print them out and stick em in a binder if you can. It is only part of the 89 GL FSM, but its most of the important stuff; engine, fuel injection, electrical, cooling system, etc.

 

Good luck, and happy subaruing!

[misledxcracker]

One thing I will point out; this is METRIC sized vacuum hose, so make sure you get the right size ()

 

Or use the wrong size, and some zipties!

[thealleyboy]

Lots of good suggestions above...

A couple of things not mentioned, maybe worth considering:

Leak down testing - Compression testing alone can be deceptive. If the compression reads normal, but you still suspect a HG failure, I would do a leak down for peace of mind

T-fittings/backflushing - If you are going to go to the trouble of overhauling your cooling system, you may as well add T-s at both the inlet and outlet of the heater core. I have found that {at least} annual forward & backward flushes do more for keeping your cooling system healthy than any other system procedure. If you don't do this faithfully, you can be sure that all the $$ you spend on a brand new rad, water pump, heater core etc will be a waste.

good luck, John

[joebmx]

Thanks so much for all the info. I think I am in a fair place for figuring out the problem however I do have another question, as I had mentioned earlier when I pulled a spark plug wire on my no.1 cylinder there was no change in idle. I haven't pulled the plug to see if it is crap or not but for arguments sake let's it is fine, I would assume then that I have a seal issue at that point, correct? So if I get a compression reading that is low it can be either a Head Gasket or a piston ring. How do I differentiate at that point. Someone mentiined that a head gasket would most likely give a low reading on the adjacent cylinder. Will I alway see this pattern or can I expect only one cylinder to have low compression? Am I on the right track or am I getting my stuff messed up?

 

Also, am i going to find a big differnce in $20 and $50 compression testers?

 

Thanks again.

[daeron]

Low compression in a cylinder can have a cause in one of three key sealing areas: the piston rings, which seal the bottom of the combustion chamber; the Valves, which seal the intake and exhaust, and thereby the "ceiling" of the combustion chamber; and the head gasket which seals the perimeter of the combustion chamber.

 

The possibilities inherent in extremely low compression in one cylinder only are: (in no order) blown headgasket, sticking valve(s), blown rings, or physical damage to the piston/cylinder wall.

 

Most experience with these engines shows the bottom ends (pistons, blocks, crankshafts, etc) are fairly bulletproof. For a non turbo application, chances are that most of this is fine. (Still not impossible, but lets put any major bad diagnosis on hold until we have ruled out the simpler stuff)

 

Usually a headgasket blown badly enough to cause THAT much compression loss would show SOME sort of other symptoms.. have you taken the radiator cap off with the engine running, and looked for bubbles? Bubbles in the cooling system can indicate blown HG, because the cylinder is pushing what should be cylinder compression into the radiator. Water/oil mixing, evidence of oil or water being burnt, are all other things pointing towards head gasket.

 

Now, to differentiate further, your next step is to use a leak down tester. This is a device that applies pressurized air to the cylinder. You can listen to the exhaust and the intake, to see if you hear air blowing out either of those (indicating a stuck valve) or listen to the oil dipstick tube, for bubbling (indicating blown HG or bad rings) or pop the rad cap off and check for bubbling there (blown HG again) If the rings are bad, compression numbers should go up by squirting a few ounces of motor oil into the cylinder's spark plug hole just before re testing the compression.

 

That SHOULD cover most of what you need, feel free to ask any questions. Good luck, hope this helps.