deks69 Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 EDIT: Anyone know where to find the Service manual, dealership says Subaru wont allow the public to buy it.: /EDIT OK, This car is starting to wear on me. 98 Subaru legacy GT 2.5. Two different shops (1 was a subaru dealer.), read the codes, Both showed a missfire on cycliner 1. I do the work myself so 200 bucks later, (new plugs, wires, first time, And coil after the dealers determination also 180# compression.) and the CEL still came back on after about a 100 miles. WTF. I am going to assume its still the missfire cylinder 1 code. What else could this possiable be? I read somewhere and of course cant find it now, something else unrelated can cause that error and its an easy fix. It was also brought to my attention, the dealership I bought the car from, jacked the Remotless entry and securtiy system from it, and I have about 90% wear on my clutch. I am seriously thinking I made a mistake buying an older subaru. Now I am faced with should I do the head gaskets when I do the clutch? I have to do the rear seal, if I want to stop the small oil leak anyway. I do know once these things are fixed, I should see light at the end of the tunnel. I just want the CEL to stay off, and for it to be working right. I have dumped over 1000 bucks into that car in the last few weeks, preventing problems, just bought new tires also. I like the car but when should I say when? I've only had it a month! I also dont have the time to work on the thing myself, I will if I have to to save cash but I am pretty busy during the summer. Any advice on this would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Hi. You can certainly buy the OEM repair manual as an individual. Check out techinfo.subaru.com if you want to get it on CD, I think it's ~$200. If you want just certain sections of the manual you can do like a 72 hour subscription for ~$40 I think and get the sections you want. If you want a print copy, check out here MSA5T9406AX REPAIR MANUALS FOR 1998 LEGACY & OUTBACK (all 16 volumes) SET ONLY msrp $700 Sometimes you will the OEM print versions on eBay for a lot less than the price for new. I got a nice set for '00obw that way. A relatively inexpensive way to get access to the OEM service information for Subaru is http://www.alldatadiy.com For your misfire issue: Were all OEM components used (you said 1 shop was a dealer) (especially spark plug wires Subaru's really like OEM plug wires, and oem recommended spark plugs (usually ngk copper)) Also, do not assume that the CEL now active is the same code. Get it read to know for sure. It might still be a misfire code but it could be something else. Autozone and such places will read the code for free. Just make them tell you the code number such as P0420 not just the description. The coil pack and plug wires can sometimes crack and erode at the terminal points that may be why the one shop replaced it. Sometimes just after a fuel filter change you can get misfire codes. When you do the clutch, you have to decide if you want to do the HG's. Also depends if you pull the engine or the trans. Are you seeing any bubbly oily nasty stuff in the overflow bottle or getting any temp gauge spikes? How many miles on the vehicle? Not every phase I 2.5L will have the issue and there are estimates on the number that are developing the problem. If you plan to keep this vehicle for a while and don't want to worry about HG's in the future and there is savings doing it at the same time as the clutch then it might be worth considering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I don't have much time right now, so this is going to be short. See the last section of this: http://endwrench.com/current/spring04pdfs/InsiderInfo.pdf Don't forget that misfire causes aren't limited to ignition. Good compression probably means healthy rings and valves, but how is the fuel delivery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Ebay is an excellent place to find factory service manuals. You should be able to get the complete 8 book set for under $180 dollars. You can also get the CD version for under $30 dollars. The Section 2 manual covers the engine and Section 7 or 8 (not sure on that year) covers the electrical wiring. These are the most important sections to have and will be used the most. It is really best to get the whole set in my opinion. They are a must have item that can save you a lot of money in repairs and your time. The misfire problem may be due to some carbon buildup on the piston and head. You could try using the Seafoam trick to dissolve the carbon. If that doesn't work you might try swapping injectors to see if that makes the problem move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deks69 Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 EDIT Just downloaded the OEM .PDF file For 5 bucks off ebay. It says official OEM service manual for 95-2000 subaru's, is this the correct one? /EDIT Yes, should have been more specific. All parts where OEM, Coil, Plug wires, and the NGK's Subaru recommends. I did the work myself, the shops only read the codes, as I have no checkers, or autozone near me to do it for free. The fuel filter was resently replaced, like 150 miles ago. The CEL light was already on at that time. After replacing coil, (yesterday) came on just under a 100 miles. The car has 90k on it now. It has good compression 180 LBS. (good right?) The car is clean inside and out. No reside in the Antifreeze overflow, no bubbles in the oil, temp gage never moves from dead center after it warms up. The plan was to keep this car as long as it runs, and drives. Other wise no car on the planet, would keep me putting money into after I just bought the thing, It blew a crank seal, and oil pump seal, 200 miles from the dealer for cripe sake. I just know that once some of these things are fixed I "should" have a trouble free car for a long time. Although everything I saved on the car, has been made up, and its well over book. 215$ for a new clutch. 600 total if they put it in. (can they do a rear seal while doing the clutch? if they dont pull the engine?) Knowing HG's are a known issue, I figure that will be the next big thing to go if it does. So doing the clutch and the HG's now would make sense, but that was just a clutch place, and they dont pull the engine to do the job. I could do it myself, but i dont know if I have the time. I also dont like fixing stuff that isnt broke. Anyone Close to Moose Lake, MN that could give me a hand maybe? Free beer all weekend. I would go through and replace everything, I saw the price list to a tune of $750? to basically do everything to the engine that needs it while its out. Sounds good to me. Now if I can just get rid of the damn CEL light. Isnt there a jumper where I can read the codes myself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deks69 Posted July 1, 2007 Author Share Posted July 1, 2007 Wow, I dont want to get to excited, but I think the head gaskets are the new ones, I decided to degrease the under belly of the car, (from all the old oil leaks) AND i Noticed, part of the HG sticking out, just a round tab, and it looks as if there is metal on the outside, and some green material sandwidched inbetween that. I cant tell if they are both like that though. cant get the other side clean enough. But if this thing has the new headgaskets, then damn, the clutch is all it will mostlikely ever need! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 yep, metal on the outsides of material should indicate newer headgasket, that is an excellent score. baffled on the CEL though. i bet it's the same, but you'll need to have it read at some point. try reseating the wire in that cylinder (front passengers side is #1). you replaced the ignition coil already? you've put new gas in it since buying it right, it's not old gas? i think i'd go through the FSM diagnostics on the cylinder misfire code after making sure that wire is seated. the FSM should have a detailed method of tracking down the cause of the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deks69 Posted July 1, 2007 Author Share Posted July 1, 2007 yep, metal on the outsides of material should indicate newer headgasket, that is an excellent score. baffled on the CEL though. i bet it's the same, but you'll need to have it read at some point. try reseating the wire in that cylinder (front passengers side is #1). you replaced the ignition coil already? you've put new gas in it since buying it right, it's not old gas? i think i'd go through the FSM diagnostics on the cylinder misfire code after making sure that wire is seated. the FSM should have a detailed method of tracking down the cause of the issue. Oh yes, I've put 4,000 miles on it already, and I ussally run, octaine boost injection cleaner or seafoam with every other fill., (just for the fact I think this car was under ran (city driving or granny), and is carboned up) I cleared the codes again after replacing the coil, and I did recently change the Fuel filter so that was the other reason. The CEL is now off, but i've only put 40 miles on it, with no HW driving. Which is when it ussally comes back on. I will go through the FSM if it comes back on, because I've done everything so far to correct it. P.S. If you guys need the service manuels from 95-00 let me know we can work something out. It's in Pdf. files so I can send them over a file share or like MSN or yahoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deks69 Posted July 7, 2007 Author Share Posted July 7, 2007 Oh yes, I've put 4,000 miles on it already, and I ussally run, octaine boost injection cleaner or seafoam with every other fill., (just for the fact I think this car was under ran (city driving or granny), and is carboned up) I cleared the codes again after replacing the coil, and I did recently change the Fuel filter so that was the other reason. The CEL is now off, but i've only put 40 miles on it, with no HW driving. Which is when it ussally comes back on. I will go through the FSM if it comes back on, because I've done everything so far to correct it. P.S. If you guys need the service manuels from 95-00 let me know we can work something out. It's in Pdf. files so I can send them over a file share or like MSN or yahoo. Ok the CEL came back on and was close enough to autozone so I had them check it, P0301 was the code, same code as the dealer gave me a week ago. Everything, has been replaced, New Plugs, Wires, and now coil. All oem, and NGK subaru recommended plugs. I see there is a huge list on these codes in the search, but has anyone figured out a real why?? It's only been this code, and continoues to be this code. I changed the plugs and wires before the coil. And what if I just leave this alone because I sounds like a bs problem that doesnt really do anything anyway? Other then the anoying light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 I run a server, so if you want a place to host that PDF file for everyone to share just let me know and I will send you the info for you to upload it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Ok the CEL came back on and was close enough to autozone so I had them check it, P0301 was the code, same code as the dealer gave me a week ago. Everything, has been replaced, New Plugs, Wires, and now coil. All oem, and NGK subaru recommended plugs. I see there is a huge list on these codes in the search, but has anyone figured out a real why?? It's only been this code, and continoues to be this code. I changed the plugs and wires before the coil. And what if I just leave this alone because I sounds like a bs problem that doesnt really do anything anyway? Other then the anoying light. As long as the CEL light is on its not a BS light. It can be a bad fuel injector too. Remove the FI connector and plug it back in. Usually thats enough to clean the connectors. If its a bad injector you can dump raw fuel into the converter and burn it up. http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/OBDSpring04.pdf http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/LegacyandImprezaInfo.pdf hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubeeTed Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Hi! I had a similiar thing on my '97 2.5 DOHC. But it was #3. I replaced coil, wires, plugs. It ended up being...this IS weird! One of my valves was sticking! I finally brought my car to a REAL Subee guy! HE had a real Subee Code machine. He was able to see that the "Wait State" for one of the valves was TOO long! This thru the code. I had a Valve adjustment done, this 2.5 DOHC is a shim engine. After that, code gone! Good Luck!! SubeeTed EDIT: Anyone know where to find the Service manual, dealership says Subaru wont allow the public to buy it.: /EDITOK, This car is starting to wear on me. 98 Subaru legacy GT 2.5. Two different shops (1 was a subaru dealer.), read the codes, Both showed a missfire on cycliner 1. I do the work myself so 200 bucks later, (new plugs, wires, first time, And coil after the dealers determination also 180# compression.) and the CEL still came back on after about a 100 miles. WTF. I am going to assume its still the missfire cylinder 1 code. What else could this possiable be? I read somewhere and of course cant find it now, something else unrelated can cause that error and its an easy fix. It was also brought to my attention, the dealership I bought the car from, jacked the Remotless entry and securtiy system from it, and I have about 90% wear on my clutch. I am seriously thinking I made a mistake buying an older subaru. Now I am faced with should I do the head gaskets when I do the clutch? I have to do the rear seal, if I want to stop the small oil leak anyway. I do know once these things are fixed, I should see light at the end of the tunnel. I just want the CEL to stay off, and for it to be working right. I have dumped over 1000 bucks into that car in the last few weeks, preventing problems, just bought new tires also. I like the car but when should I say when? I've only had it a month! I also dont have the time to work on the thing myself, I will if I have to to save cash but I am pretty busy during the summer. Any advice on this would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Through a vacume gauge on the car and let us know what it reads. A stuck valve is not surprising. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deks69 Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 Through a vacume gauge on the car and let us know what it reads. A stuck valve is not surprising. nipper Where would I find someone with a vacume gauge, I am taking my car in for warrenty recalls tuesday, would a subaru dealer have one? I cleaned the connector to the coil, and tightened the connection. I also poped the connector to the fuel injecter on cyl 1 and cleaned that too. Both done with contact cleaner. Turned car on, CEL turned off after a normal start up. Never erased the codes, so something happened. I only test drove the car for about 10 miles. Got it up to 110 (just to clean ************ out). and it hasnt come back on, but I am not holding my breath. It ussally happends 65 miles from home. We will see, nothing I did before cleared the CEL so this is a plus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 A dealer may have one, you can get one cheap an autoparts sotre (i think). This is the one kind of gauge well more money doesnt mean a better gauge. As long as its not digital. nipper Edit : this is when you find out how good the mechanics are. Timing lights are rare these days (almost antiquated), but a good mechanic will still have and know how to read a vacume gauge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deks69 Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 I run a server, so if you want a place to host that PDF file for everyone to share just let me know and I will send you the info for you to upload it. Kilroy let me know where to upload it, deks69atgmaildotcom Only stipulation is someone that finds the contence page let me know. Or if someone is eager to create a table of contence. Hard searching through all these filenames that mean nothing to get what you want. It is the complete oem service manuel for 95-00 Its all there, just a pain in the arse to search through all the pdf's just to get to what your looking for. (took me an hour to find clutch adjustment) The directory structure does separate the parts (etc. Body, Electrical body, Electrical interiror) but then inside the folders is just a bunch of pdf's. I paid for this, but you can all tottally use it and tell me where the parts I am looking for are, hahha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Just like Subee Ted, I'm fairly sure my cylinder 3 misfire was also a stuck/dirty valve. Replaced plugs, wires, coil, injector, no luck. Code never returned after the headgasket job was done, since the shop cleaned the valves in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deks69 Posted July 10, 2007 Author Share Posted July 10, 2007 Just like Subee Ted, I'm fairly sure my cylinder 3 misfire was also a stuck/dirty valve. Replaced plugs, wires, coil, injector, no luck. Code never returned after the headgasket job was done, since the shop cleaned the valves in the process. Ill check that out tommorrow at the sube dealer. On those 2.5's just removing the valve cover should give me acsess right? Probable a stupid question, but I have only worked on american engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 [...]On those 2.5's just removing the valve cover should give me acsess right?[...]Removing a valve cover allows checking of valve clearances; if you're lucky, that might provide some clues. However, using a borescope through the spark plug hole or pulling the head is necessary to inspect the combustion chamber end of the valve. As already mentioned, a vacuum gauge can tell a lot (without requiring any teardown), and sometimes a compression gauge or leak-down test can catch a sticking valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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