Teagar Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I Have a 91 subaru xt6 all wheel drive. It has 51k miles on it. I have had the car for 2 and a half years it is a daily driver. I have not had to add any power steering fluid to it yet. It finally went down from the max full line to just below the fill line. My power steering light has come on twice now. I hope it is just because of the fluid being slightly low. I know we are only supposed to use cyber fluid but I found out it is no longer in stock through the dealer. I have heard other fluid can be used .The car handles great and is in great shape still. Can I top it off with another type brake fluid ? I would kind of like to change the fluid out of it and put all new fluid into it. Fluid looks ok just a little gritty. Anyway Huck , gary gross , king bob dole to just name a few I could use some of your much valued advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 The dealer should be able to order the fluid for you. I wouldn't recommend using anything else. Dima in NZ has reported success using ATF Dexron 3, but use at your own risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I'm sure there is something else out there that can be used. The specs for hydraulic fluids get more stringent with each specification - I'm sure the new stuff exceeds the needs of the XT6 electric system. One thing I wouldn't do is mix old and new - if you decide on a new fluid drain the system and use all new stuff. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teagar Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 Yes 2nd dealer I called can still order some of the cyber fluid . THis guy took about 15 minutes to look it up and call me back. The other dealer parts dept just told me off the top of his head it is a out of stock item. It is 25$ and it will be in tuesday. If I heard him right there are only 29 single left.(pint,quart?) I will check on it tues. I hope to have my car for a long time is there any other souces of this power steering fluid beside the dealers . CarQuest ,napa ? I hope this fixes my problem. It would be very expensive to drain it and add new fluid at these prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Find out the specs of the fluid and find a generic replacement - I would venture to guess that either the Mitsu Diamond SP-3 or some of the fluids used for other vehicles equipped with EPS would do the trick.... Chevrolet Cobalt, Acura NSX, Saturn Vue V6, 2nd gen Toyota MR2 and on most FIAT and Lancia cars. It's a 20 year old system - there's fluids out there that exceed it's needs by leaps and bounds. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suberdave Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Find out the specs of the fluid and find a generic replacement - I would venture to guess that either the Mitsu Diamond SP-3 or some of the fluids used for other vehicles equipped with EPS would do the trick.... Chevrolet Cobalt, Acura NSX, Saturn Vue V6, 2nd gen Toyota MR2 and on most FIAT and Lancia cars. It's a 20 year old system - there's fluids out there that exceed it's needs by leaps and bounds. GD well i can tell you that the Chevy and Saturn cars with EPS dont use any fluid. the system is 100% electric. just uses a motor. no fluid at all.... -=Suberdave=- http://www.suberdave.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4x4_Welder Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 It's just a matter of finding something that's compatible with the seals- beyond that, they're all 10w hydraulic oil. I have to wonder if AW46 or the like would be right- you can get more than a gallon of that stuff for $25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 if you're looking for someone on here to say they've used it for years and you can go to the parts store and find it...you're not going to find that kind of answer. but yes, there is certainly something out there, noone just knows exactly what that is. one of our XT6 members in NZ has been running ATF in his for at least 2 years now...maybe 3 and so far there are no issues. i'm not saying that's a good idea, but that's the only non-Subaru fluid i know of that's actually being run and driven in an XT6. the more pressing question is where did your fluid go? if it's leaking then dumping fluid in is not going to fix it. leaks very, very rarely get better with time. at $25 a quart, adding isn't quite as economical as oil leaks. check the fluid lines attached at the pump. there's one that has a clamp on it, the lower one, that typically leaks. it's just a standard hose and clamp set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benebob Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 well i can tell you that the Chevy and Saturn cars with EPS dont use any fluid. the system is 100% electric. just uses a motor. no fluid at all.... -=Suberdave=- www.suberdave.com It still uses PS fluid doesn't it (in the rack and all right as it is still a hydro set up isn't it? I know Honda uses normal PS fluid in the insight. I tried them once to see what they used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teagar Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 I just got the cyber fluid or liquid gold fluid as I like to call it . Thanks for the advice garygross yes I did tighten the clamp. I have had the car for 2 and a half years and this is the first time I had to add fluid to it. I could see where it was slightly seeping from the hoses and I tightened them the first thing.I was supprised how little fluid it took to make it to the full mark. Because it is such a hard to find and expensive job to replace I thought it would be a good idea to change the fluid in the power steering unit but instead I am going to drain it out with a turkey baster and filter the fluid then put it back. It should not be to hard to do. I will clean the inside of the cylinder also when I do . The dealer told me there are 29 quarts left in the USA but more could be ordered from Japan when they need to. The first dealer I went to did not know his head from a hole in the ground and the local subaru specialist his head from a hole in the ground but only somtimes as far as I am concerned. These guys know nothing on XT6 Here in Sacramento. The only other xt6 I have seen here are in the junkyards. Good to see a few familiar names from XT6.net in this post. I hope my power steering light stays off and this solves my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegAC Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 I've read about a few failures on other boards when they have used fluid other than the recommendation. I don't think it has anything to do with meeting or exceeding specifications. I think it has more to do with chemitry. There may be friction modifiers or something that are missing from normal power steering fluid. I would personally just continue to use the dealer bought stuff and consider a Power Steering flush if you have the funds. However, it could run over $100 as much as that fluid costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 However, it could run over $100 as much as that fluid costs. nah, won't be that much unless you're paying someone to do it. the system only takes a bottle. i just flushed mine this year and i don't think it took an entire bottle to do it. if you're doing that, it wouldn't hurt to save the old stuff just in case for later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teagar Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 What would be the best and easiest way to flush the power steering system? I could put the new bottle of fluid in and save the old fluid for emergency that would be a good idea. My power steering light has not come on since I started this thread I hope to never see that again. Just diconnecting the clamp and hose seems the easiest but I would rather find out from someone who has done it before so I dont mess something up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 someone just posted about this and there were some excellent suggestions, unfortunately i can't recall them off the top of my head, but try a search and i bet you'll find that thread. seems it's not more than a month or two old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 The light will come on if the brushes in the motor start to wear out. But at least these are available from other sources, just need to cross reference them from a place that works on electrical motors. If someone knows of a auto chemical analyst, they can do a breakdown on the ingredients. Then you can find out what other fluids are compatable out on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teagar Posted July 26, 2007 Author Share Posted July 26, 2007 It did it to me again. I was right in the middle of a turn and the steering wheel got real hard to turn for about 2 seconds then the steering light went on and then the power steering came back before I came out of the turn. THis is the first time this has happened in a turn and the 3 time the light has come on . :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 Alot of times what happens is the graphite brushes will leave a bunch of dust on the armature inside. When mine did it, I would give a couple of whacks with the handle (wood) of my hammer. It would knock the dust down so it would make contact. After a while it wouldnt work, so I took my compressor and blew into the motor. It displaced a bunch of dust, but the problem returned after a while. The motor needs to be pulled off and the brushes inspected. Replace if they are getting real short. If they look good, just get all the dust out of the motor and it should be fine for a long time. Or until the brushes need replacing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeakingOil Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 just to add...when doing your brushes or just cleaning out the dust you can clean the copper part your brushes ride on with brillo...I had a write up about this whole subject (with pics) but unfortunately they are being held hostage in XT6.net Side note...the "lid" you pull off when taking it apart...be careful because it is fragile and if hit hard enough it will break in 2. Best to try and seat it on it as best you can and then lightly massage the lid in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 It did it to me again. i wouldn't expect this problem to just go away. it usually gets worse before it gets better. a very temporary solution is to just tap the motor casing and knock some of the internal dust and build up off. there's even a hole at the back of the pump (the cap part that comes off, where all the wires bolt too). i imagine you could pull the rubber plug out of it and blowin in that with compressed air. keep your head away, if it works a fair amount of black dust will puff out. have the brushes ever been replaced? if not, then it's probably time. pull the motor apart, clean it and reassemble with new brushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted July 26, 2007 Share Posted July 26, 2007 I realize that what they are talking about can sound somewhat intimidating, but really an electric motor is an ABSURDLY simple apparatus to take apart, clean, and re assemble. It is one of the most common "first tinkerings" that we tweakfreaks venture forth upon as young lads (and lasses I suppose) Honestly, its one that I never got around to until about two years ago.. but, when my starter died and I had no money to replace it, I just disassembled it, cleaned it, and re assembled it within the space of an hour. That starter went on to see six months of pizza delivery service, about 20-30 starts a day. Go ahead, you can do it. It won't be as hard as say, changing out a radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teagar Posted July 27, 2007 Author Share Posted July 27, 2007 Actually I am not to bad at things like that. I live in a apartment where I can not work on stuff other than sneak around and do it like in the early hours in the weekends. The problem got much worse today and I will have to do something. The car only has 51 k miles on it so I am sure it has not had any work done to the power steering dept.I uploaded some pics of it and my speedometer. I just need to do this smartly like having the parts I need on hand when I do it. I have no air compressor just hand tools. I do not like to just start tearing stuff apart until i understand the does and dont of the issue it save me time and I work 50 hours a week and I do not have alot of extra time. Thank you for all of the advice everyone and I will try to take it out and clean it this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 Actually I am not to bad at things like that. I live in a apartment where I can not work on stuff other than sneak around and do it like in the early hours in the weekends. The problem got much worse today and I will have to do something. The car only has 51 k miles on it so I am sure it has not had any work done to the power steering dept.I uploaded some pics of it and my speedometer. I just need to do this smartly like having the parts I need on hand when I do it. I have no air compressor just hand tools. I do not like to just start tearing stuff apart until i understand the does and dont of the issue it save me time and I work 50 hours a week and I do not have alot of extra time. Thank you for all of the advice everyone and I will try to take it out and clean it this weekend Can you just bring the motor inside to clean it? It shouldnt be THAT much more involved than disassembling a fishing reel or a gun to clean it, so a large solid table covered in newspaper would be more than sufficient. If you can accomplish the rebuild inside, then all you have to do is remove it, and re install it. Remove it one night, starting at around eight or nine, and rebuild it that night or the next day, and re install it the next night. it can't be too difficult?? I dont know the engine bay but my point is, the removal and reinstallation is all that needs to "happen in the parking lot." Just close the hood after you take it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 27, 2007 Share Posted July 27, 2007 removing the pump is a good idea but you'll have the fluid to deal with. it's really easy to remove. i believe it's only 6 bolts that have to be removed, and they come out very easily. and they have to come off to replace the brushes anyway because you have to be able to move the pump up and out of the bracket a bit to replace the brushes. then remove the wires, which also have to come off anyway to replace the brushes...well technically you could leave them connected but that is tricky and not much room to work with. then you'll just need screw drivers and a wrench to remove the hoses. then remove the pump and hold the hoses up and out of the way so they don't leak, plug them with bolts or something. then drain the pump into something. if you have a eye dropper you can nearly empty the pump before doing anything so not much fluid remains in it and it's easy to carry around without much fluid coming out. no matter what method you use, be careful prying on to remove and reinstalling the back plate, it will crack if abused. if you have these issues to deal with it may be easier to order the brushes ($15) and have a shop install them for you. i'd call around and see if any auto electrical shops would do it. let them know it's really easy and you'll have it ready for them to just replace the brushes. you'll only have to remove 4 12mm bolts that hold the pump in the bracket. with those removed it's just a matter of disassembling and reassembling an electric motor and an electrical/automotive shop would probably do that for not much money. the tricky parts: keeping the guts assembled when you reinstall them. the magnet inside the pump housing wants to pull the guts inside and out of the end cap, where the brushes reside, as you install it. have to keep trying or attempt to do it on the car (tricky). the next tricky part is seating everything to torque the bolts down...make sure it's seated fully, using the bolts to draw it tight is not a good idea, things will break. and...make sure you mark which wires go where, even if you think you'll remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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