October 13, 200718 yr Yeah... two down..... Tonight I took Roni, Rick and their mom out to eat and as I was leaving.... well I pulled it around to get some seat for the RX from Rick... it was making a hella lot of noise... Rick said rod knock... right off, but it was odd. The wagon still had full power, was idling very smoothly, just making this awful noise, like a rod knock... Actually, my guess was Timing belt idler.... I had been hearing what sounded like a serp belt bearing ever since I got it muddy the other day... so I guessed bearing... Anyway, me being me, I decide it's an old Subaru and to drive it home... and ask if he has his cell. It's a good 30 minute drive home. I get about 10 minutes before it dies.... not a bang, there goes my rod, but more like I stepped on the gas and pow there goes my power. Jump out, pull the cap and using the handy remote start, crank the engine.. the rotor turns... and it makes the grand noise... I was like WTF, was Rick right? Call Rick, he tows me home... we look it over, no holes, nothing that looks wrong... till Roni wants to go home and then just as I'm about to go inside I see a puddle. Not much of a puddle, just a fresh oil spot(The wagon and Rx don't leak normally) I take a look and it's running down the skid plate... from... This: Looks like I broke the oil pump shaft? I'm thinking, throw a pump at it and see if she flies.... The XT got about a mile and a half with no oil... I'm guessing(since I was watching the pressure gauge) that the wagon ran without pressure for about 2 seconds.... Thoughts? experience? If not I'll just throw a long block at it... but not at the windshield... that's new:-p
October 13, 200718 yr i don't know what vehicle that is - year/make - engine and i can't tell from the pic's. don't matter though, i'm thinking exactly what you're thinking, throw an oil pump at it and see what happens. if that doesn't work, then try just installing the oil pump. my experiences with loss of oil and rod knock have all ended with breaking out the engine lift, hopefully yours didn't run dry and maybt it wasn't rod knock. what's that cogged piece in the pic? oil pump gears? looks like whatever shaft is inset inside of that gear set seized - causing it to break?
October 13, 200718 yr Author sorry... 87 GL SPFI 1.8 litre. Thats a pic of the front timing cover taken from the drivers side... The gear sticking out is what I believe to be the drive gear for the oil pump...
October 13, 200718 yr what's that cogged piece in the pic? oil pump gears? looks like whatever shaft is inset inside of that gear set seized - causing it to break? I was wondering what that cogged piece is myself. Sorry to read about your misfortune. Will stay tuned!
October 13, 200718 yr is that an EA81? WOW - NOW i see what's going on. the pic looks so strange i thought the geared piece was just a small piece of it lying there, broken off from elsewhere. it's still semi-attached, but actually poking through the front...wowsers. interesting.
October 13, 200718 yr Author Nope, it's my EA82... and yeah, the gear is coming OUT OF the front timing belt cases... I'm assuming that this would do the same amount of damage if I had just thrown a belt... I'm still hoping its ok... I'll throw a used pump[ in it and see if she knocks... if not, I'll pull the motor and go full front end rebuild baby... or if knock, I'll just do a long block... :-\
October 13, 200718 yr Nope, it's my EA82NOW i really see it this time. i couldn't figure out what was left right top down. i finally see that it's looking up from underneath. maybe the nut just came off the oil pump pulley? i've seen oil starved EA/ER engines and the oil pumps do get nasty, chewed up a bit with metal pieces everywhere - so you'll know a good bit when you pull the pump. hopefully you're good.
October 13, 200718 yr NOW i really see it this time. i couldn't figure out what was left right top down. i finally see that it's looking up from underneath. maybe the nut just came off the oil pump pulley? i've seen oil starved EA/ER engines and the oil pumps do get nasty, chewed up a bit with metal pieces everywhere - so you'll know a good bit when you pull the pump. hopefully you're good. i have never worked on sube before but when that happens to the indy engines we maintain --most of the timewith that little time with no oil pump pressure assuming the oil was simi cleam you can expect very lttle damage good luck. come on guys help me with my84 brat.
October 13, 200718 yr i have never worked on sube before but when that happens to the indy engines we maintain --most of the timewith that little time with no oil pump pressure assuming the oil was simi cleam you can expect very lttle damage good luck. come on guys help me with my84 brat. really looks like the gear was wearing it bearing out and the preasure caused it to tork away from its drive anf eat on the engine shell. if so and all else is ok a hliarc repair of the bearing mount and the hole will allow you to go agaain. probbly costly if youdont have the euipt
October 13, 200718 yr Phil now come-on..its an EA82!!! unless you shot a piston out the motor somewhere..its fine..clean it out and toss a new pump on there.
October 14, 200718 yr Phil, thats the idler since the oil pump gear has a lip on it. Just rip the covers off, pull the belt (repace it because I'm guessing its probably done for...) and slap some new tensioners and an idler with new belts at it and voila, done.
October 14, 200718 yr I vote for the idler pulley as well, given that it's right next to the rubber plug that covers the port for adjusting the idler's tension. You got off easy!
October 14, 200718 yr According to this pic, http://www.economysuperstar.com/milesfox/gallery/rxbuild/tensioneradjust.jpg it's the idler pulley. Maybe bad bearing, maybe bolt failed or backed out.
October 14, 200718 yr Almost looks to me like it's the idler that sits next to the oil pump, if my memory serves me correctly, the oil pump has like a lip around the edge of the pulley to keep the belt on, where the idler that's next to it does not, like the one that's sticking out of your cover.
October 14, 200718 yr Almost looks to me like it's the idler that sits next to the oil pump, if my memmory serves me correctly, the oil pump has like a lip around the edge of the pulley to keep the belt on, where the idler that's next to it does not, like the one that's sticking out of your cover. Exactly what I was thinking.
October 17, 200718 yr Author It was actually decently warm today (like 60's) and so after work I tore into it... got farther then I wanted to... The Aftermath: Better pic of the damage visible from outside... I removed the skid plate Strangely most of the bits were on the other side of the motor.... neat...looks like I need a water pump too... Back in the lab... Question is now I'm this far... do I go coverless, carry extras and tools and not have to spend 2 hours doing this the next time?... Or will my snow and mud adventures most likely leave me on the trail?
October 17, 200718 yr Leave the covers, they drastically increase the life of the timing belt if you run off road... Replace it with an OEM belt, or a good quality aftermarket one (Not one of the cheap $12 ones) eerm.. beltS lol haven't worked on an EA82 in a while..
October 17, 200718 yr Author I don't off road much... but I do see a lot of snow... I'm actually thinking about keeping the covers for now... just gotta make sure that I have some "new" ones...
October 17, 200718 yr I don't off road much... but I do see a lot of snow... I'm actually thinking about keeping the covers for now... just gotta make sure that I have some "new" ones... drill them, ziptie them, and they can come off with relative ease next time, or in case of emergency inspections. They can be split enough to get a look without pulling anything off.
October 20, 200718 yr These photos and stuff are going to help me greatly. I think that this may be what is wrong with my GL-10 wagon. As soon as I can get back to the States, I will be tearing into it to find out what the deal is with it. kingbobdole, I'm sorry that this happened to you, but Thank You a whole lot for posting those pics. -Patrick
October 20, 200718 yr Author These photos and stuff are going to help me greatly. I think that this may be what is wrong with my GL-10 wagon. As soon as I can get back to the States, I will be tearing into it to find out what the deal is with it. kingbobdole, I'm sorry that this happened to you, but Thank You a whole lot for posting those pics. -Patrick No Problem man... that's what it's here for... One thing of note that surprised me was that the bearing failing was QUICK and LOUD.. It was fine going to dinner, shut it off, one hour later, it sounded like a VERY loud knock. Then about 10-15 minutes later, done. The one I stuck in there in order to get to work was bad... you can hear it as the engine runs... just sounds like a bad bearing normally sounds... wirring.. Hope it makes it 20 miles.
October 20, 200718 yr The bearing in that idler is replacable. I'll see if I can find the number for it and post back. You might have some "fun" getting the inner race off of the spacer though.
October 20, 200718 yr Good pics! Keep the covers off until you can get some new ones. Just try to stay away from going too far off the road, if you do.
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