Does anyone know if this has been done yet? There was an article on Johnathon Goodwin in a recent issue of Fast Company. He can get 40MPG out of an H2 with a combination of either Diesel/Bio-Diesel/Ethanol and either natural gas or hydrogen. It also runs on an electric motor. That's not the half of it though. Not only do you getter ridiculous mileage, but DOUBLE the horsepower and torque. He is negotiating with UPS to convert several trucks which would offset UPS gas costs by 50%.

 

If that's not enough, he's engineered a new hybrid that utilizes a TURBINE engine which kicks on for a few seconds, in turn charging a set of supercapacitor batteries in seconds... This Kansan may very well be the saving grace for the American car manufacturer.

WOW. Nobody see's the potential in this???

I don't doubt that anyone sees the potential in this, but I think many of us doubt whether it's actually true.

 

Someone smarter than me will have inform us about this for certain, but I don't think it's possible to increase both the horsepower and fuel economy of an engine, short of switching to a power source like nuclear fusion

 

The fuels you talked about don't have that much more energy stored in them than gasoline. Some do have the potential to burn more efficiently, though.

 

I am truly a lover of new technology and always see their potential to have a major impact, but this one smacks of something that just won't come to fruition.

 

As an aside, want to know a nearly foolproof way to predict whether some new technology will be successful? If it appears on the cover of Popular Science you are nearly 100% guaranteed that it will fail.

Using propane injection with diesel is a known way to get way more power output. Does his MPG include the cost of the other fuel?

You can increase the fuel mileage and hP of a car, its done all the time, with almost the same displacement. Just llok at the history of the automotive engine (take a chevy 350 which has been around for ages, and look at the specs over the year).

 

The more effecient the car runs, the cleaner it is, and the most it gets from the fuel. A simple thing as running too rich can reduce power output.

 

Now I did see something like this, but i can't remember where. UPS doesnt have to do much to increase the MPG of the trucks to see savings.

 

Everytime you add a fuel, you add a complication. Mono fuel vehicals are cheaper to use in the long run. Turbines can run on almost any fuel, and they have come a long way with micro-turbins. There are a few commuter busses running around (NYC is testing one) that uses a turbine to charge batteries, then shuts down untill needed. Its supposed to be scarily quiet.

 

Hydrogen has a really really long way to go before we see it in home or personal use. Heheh just wait till the consumer hears it has an invisable flame. so you can't see the gas burning as it leaks out

 

 

nipper

If it appears on the cover of Popular Science you are nearly 100% guaranteed that it will fail.

 

 

I always thought that magazine would be more aptly named Popular Science Theory:grin:

I always thought that magazine would be more aptly named Popular Science Theory:grin:

 

Hehehehe

 

That and wining any music award for "best new artist" both are the kiss of death

 

 

nipper

WOW. Nobody see's the potential in this???

 

There is no wow there. Combination of existing technologies, increases complexity of nx degree, offsets efficiency advantage.

 

Effiiciency of ic engine is measured in kw output compared to chemical fuel oxidation potential.

 

The term "Dual Fuel" is most commonly used to describe gasoline-LPG combination systems. In EFI systems, the physicla of the injectors are the main issue. Liquid gasoline injectors are a different animal than vapor LPG injectors, and the ECU must accommodate not only different fuel curves, but a completely different set of outputs, for starters. I know of no manufacturer producing cars built as dual fuel. A co in Turkey is offering software for mapping, but fitting the secondary LPG plumbing is still a user issue.

 

mpergielelmhurstil99forester97legato"sport"

 

 

There is no wow there. Combination of existing technologies, increases complexity of nx degree, offsets efficiency advantage.

 

Effiiciency of ic engine is measured in kw output compared to chemical fuel oxidation potential.

 

The term "Dual Fuel" is most commonly used to describe gasoline-LPG combination systems. In EFI systems, the physicla of the injectors are the main issue. Liquid gasoline injectors are a different animal than vapor LPG injectors, and the ECU must accommodate not only different fuel curves, but a completely different set of outputs, for starters. I know of no manufacturer producing cars built as dual fuel. A co in Turkey is offering software for mapping, but fitting the secondary LPG plumbing is still a user issue.

 

mpergielelmhurstil99forester97legato"sport"

 

 

 

I believe ford offers some dual fuel on some models. Propane converison is releativly simple. You genrally do not get much HP improvement, but it does run cleaner. I drove a Schwans truck that was propane powered it was a GMC, but converted from gas. Ford offered one that was Propane from the factory. In europe Propane is much more popular due to tax advantages. VW TDI motors seem to take Propane very nicely. On a normal spark ingnighted motor, you get around 80% or the power you do on gas.

I believe ford offers some dual fuel on some models. Propane converison is releativly simple. You genrally do not get much HP improvement, but it does run cleaner. I drove a Schwans truck that was propane powered it was a GMC, but converted from gas. Ford offered one that was Propane from the factory. In europe Propane is much more popular due to tax advantages. VW TDI motors seem to take Propane very nicely. On a normal spark ingnighted motor, you get around 80% or the power you do on gas.

 

Propane conversion is not really simple, especially if using injection, and dual fuel is more than 2x as complicated.

 

Ford previously made a dual fuel for US, but it appears no longer.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/byfueltypeNF.shtml

 

Flex Fuel is Gas/e85

WOW. Nobody see's the potential in this???

 

The "potential" is limited due to

1)the usual one owner-one vehicle

2)the government sometimes at whim gives a tax holiday, and then removes it

3)vehicles have become too complex for "joe average" to convert

4)cost of conversion is high, usually "out" for a used car, adding thousands on a new one

5)lack of re-fueling options while on the road (away from home)

 

We seem to thrash this about once a month around here, and no it hasn't changed one bit.

 

BTW: I am a licensed automotive propane fitter.

I want to put a gas turbine in my roo'....

Sure, it takes a few seconds to kick in when you hit the gas... but when she kicks in.. hold on!!!

You could run a pto straight off of it.... just like the JSF....