welly Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Having read a lot about HG issues on the forum I want to get something clear in my mind. Ever since I got my 2001 2.5 Legacy (second hand ) with 18,000 miles on it I noticed that it was losing coolant. I was always having to add to the expansion bottle. After finding this forum and reading posts I added the "coolant conditioner" at around 90,000 miles since when I have had very little coolant loss - although I can see some dampness on left hand side (sitting in car) of engine around head gasket. I have no other issues , no oil in coolant, coolant in oil or bubbles in expansion tank so I am assuming all I have is a leak of coolant to the outside. So question - should I worry and go and get the HG replaced or is it okay to wait and if it doesnt get any worse just leave it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 REPAIR! this should have been done ages ago while still under warrenty at 18,000 miles. You should still be under the extended subaru warrenty which is 100,000 miles. Go get it fixed asap. as an FYI this is an external leak, which is not as bad as in internal leak. Internals need to be fixed as soon as it is discovered otherwise you can cook the engine. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welly Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 Not covered by 100,000 mile warranty in UK as far as I know. Iam UK based despite my profile location showing Georgia. I mentioned the coolant consumption to the local Subaru dealer when I first had it serviced and they said the couldnt find anything wrong. Its only since finding this forum that I have found out that HG is a long standing Suby problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 well then you can wait if you keep topping off the coolant like you have been for 60,000 miles. other then that i dont know wat to tell you. I know from the BMW boards about mini's that UK consumer law is weak when it comes to automobiles, it seems the dealers are in control. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 the external leak of your vintage engine is "better" than the previous internal leaks the same motor had from 96-99. whatever you do, just don't let it overheat, that is critical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrturbo Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 You will normally have some time to run around on the external leak of the SOHC 2.5. Even some of the worst ones I have seen never caused any driveability issues as long as the coolant was topped off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welly Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 Bad news - today I noticed "foam" in the coolant expansion tank after being on a run. After letting car cool down and the coolant level settle I started the car up -- bubbles in the tank. So I guess I need to get the headgasket done asap? Note I have absolutely no overheating symptoms and oil is clean. I have a 400 mile trip coming up - is it safe to drive? I ha ve read many other posts on the HG issue and it seems like if I am going to get it done I should: Do both sides relace water pump change all cam seals tensioner replaced radiator clean anything else? This isa 2.5l 2001 with 100,000 miles on it, I assume it will be aworthwhile repair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 AH your in scotland, so I dont know what the warrenty situation is over there, but yes its worth repairing. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Bad news - today I noticed "foam" in the coolant expansion tank after being on a run. After letting car cool down and the coolant level settle I started the car up -- bubbles in the tank. So I guess I need to get the headgasket done asap? Note I have absolutely no overheating symptoms and oil is clean. I have a 400 mile trip coming up - is it safe to drive? I ha ve read many other posts on the HG issue and it seems like if I am going to get it done I should: Do both sides relace water pump change all cam seals tensioner replaced radiator clean anything else? This isa 2.5l 2001 with 100,000 miles on it, I assume it will be aworthwhile repair? From what I have read, the HG problem presents itself as exhaust gas entering the cooling system. The bubbles you see is actually exhaust gas that should have gone out the tail pipe. The exhaust gas heat and pressure can actually get so hot that the radiator will start leaking. That is what happened on my car when wife was driving it. I have no idea how long she drove it when over heating. Just continue to keep a close eye on the temperature guage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 just depends how much you like taking a risk and how annoyed you'll be if you have problems, but a 400 mile trip when you have "foam" and "bubbles" in the expansion tank is a little on the risky side. there's a fair chance of an overheat. but of course without seeing it it's really hard to say, maybe it's just dirt in tank (foam?). and maybe it was just low on coolant (bubbles)...and it's not really much worse than before. probably is, but i'm just saying without seeing it makes it difficult. look at the bottom of the oil cap - no residue build up? yes it's worth the repair. if it is actually getting worse the sooner you get it done the less likely you'll have problems down the road - with repeat failure or engine internals - meaning most likely rod bearings or crank bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welly Posted December 31, 2007 Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 No sludge or anything like that on oil filler cap. Oil is clean. Will call local dealer for a cost estimate. Did i pretty much cover all the other to do items in my previous post that should be done if I am getting the HGs done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 1, 2008 Share Posted January 1, 2008 I know from reading the "Honest John" motoring agony column on The Telegraph website that UK dealer repair charges are extraordinarily high compared to those in the US. It also appears to me that cars depreciate a good deal more rapidly in the UK. I would suggest that you do a site search on "head gaskets" and read all of the information available. Then you might consider having your coolant "sniffed" for exhaust gases. If you have none of the symptoms of an INTERNAL head gasket leak, and your sniff test come back negative, you might very well have an EXTERNAL head gasket leak. If you have an external leak, you might be able to nurse the engine on by keeping a close eye on it and the radiator. I suppose it all depends on your appetite for risk versus the cost of the repair and the current replacement value of your car. BTW, head gasket repair runs about 1,200-1,500 USD here in the states. If you don't mind, would you please post the estimate for the head gasket repair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welly Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 The Dude - yes I will post up the quote - I am expecting it to be same in £ as in dollars. In other words if $1500 in USA then I fully expect £1500 in UK. Just on dealer time alone @ £70/$140 per hour that soon adds up. By the way can you tell me in the +/- $1500 for HG repair is that only HG replacement or does it include the other items people recommend are replaced at same time as HG - water pump , seals, separator plate etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 I may be wrong on this, but I believe that the 2001 engine has a metal separator plate, instead of the previously installed plastic one, and does not require replacement. In any event, the motor or transmission must be removed from the car to replace the separator plate. If you ever have the motor or transmission removed from the car, you would want to replace the rear seal at that point. Say, when you had a replacement clutch fitted. Even without replacing the head gasket you're going to be spending a packet on this car. Tming belt replacement is coming up soon. There's the belt, possibly the tensioner, possibly a pulley or so, and the water pump. You might also consider having the oil seals on the front of the engine replaced at the same time as the belt. $1200-1500 USD is for head gasket replacement, parts and labor, alone. "Gunk" in the radiator overflow tank is a frequent symptom of an internal head gasket failure. Do you see any dark gooey gloobs in your tank? I'm a bit of a gambler and cheapskate. So, if there's no indication of internal head gasket failure and the coolant loss isn't very great, I might be inclined to nurse the engine along. I got 200,000 trouble free miles from 1999 Forester before I sold it. With a bit of luck these cars can be quite durable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welly Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 Ok for those who asked here is what I have been quoted. Best deal I have had is $1400- 1600 all in for both HG replacements, heads skimmed, cam seal and valve cover gaskets replaced. This is a local suby independent. He recommends Cometic gaskets for the repair any comments on this?). While he is in will check water pump, tensioner, pulley wheels, clutch etc and see if anything else is worth doing. Other quotes were higher with local suby dealer quoted $1800 just for labour alone. Had a quote of $1500 for replacement engine but no guarantee on its conditon. So far no goopy bits in the coolant and oil dipstick and filler cap is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 If you search this website, you will see that the use of genuine Subaru head gaskets is very strongly recommended. Indeed, Subaru went through four or so revisions of the head gasket before they finally got it right. If I was having the job done on my car I would insist on using genuine head gaskets. Also note that the heads must be skinned and surfaced properly. Hopefully, your mechanic has prior experience doing this job. Apparently you have tested not the coolant for exhaust gass, however it is likely that your engine has an external head gasket failure. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAWalker Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 The DOHC and SOHC head gaskets are different. The DOHC head gasket revisions were obvious. The SOHC (in 2000 and newer outbacks) head gasket part number has changed, but there has been no obvious revision to the gasket itself. Personaly I wouldn't have a problem going with the Cometic head gaskets on this engine. JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welly Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Thanks for all the continuing replies. Yes mechanic has prior experience of HG repairs and after discussing with him am happy with his level of experience. He has track record with cometic gaskets in NA and turbo as well as rally spec subies. Just to add to my woes and concerns recently (last 4 days) car has begun to "judder when running at low revs under load. This can be quite a kangaroo situation although running revs >2500 irons it out. Today when sitting at tickover just after one of these incidents I could detect a bit of lumpiness as if allcylanders not running right. It is intermittent and so I dont know if its related to the HG issue. I did run my fuel tank low before re filling prior to this so initially thought - dirt. But problem is persisting although intermitent. No CEL being given Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Thanks for all the continuing replies. Yes mechanic has prior experience of HG repairs and after discussing with him am happy with his level of experience. He has track record with cometic gaskets in NA and turbo as well as rally spec subies. Just to add to my woes and concerns recently (last 4 days) car has begun to "judder when running at low revs under load. This can be quite a kangaroo situation although running revs >2500 irons it out. Today when sitting at tickover just after one of these incidents I could detect a bit of lumpiness as if allcylanders not running right. It is intermittent and so I dont know if its related to the HG issue. I did run my fuel tank low before re filling prior to this so initially thought - dirt. But problem is persisting although intermitent. No CEL being given Any thoughts? Could just be a bad tank of gasoline (petrol) from your last fill up. Suggest adding a bottle of "dry gas" product to your fuel tank. Its an additive sold by various manufacturers to remove water from the fuel. Had it been raining recently before your last fill up? If so, water can leak into your filling station's storage tank if their fill up seal is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welly Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 Rooster thanks. I was thinking maybe bad gas after doing a bit of searching and reading on here. Will see if I can track down some dry gas additive. And it has been pretty wet around here what with snow melt and rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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