lostinthe202 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I have a tough choice to make and I need some help deciding. So what better place to turn than to a bunch of people who may have some better insight than myself... or at the very least have more distance from a problem I've been wrestling with for awhile and can't seem to get any objective distance on:confused: . I wasn't sure if I should post this in old or new since it involves both, but it seems that many people on the old forum have both so... I've got two roo's, and '89 hatch (ea81, 4spd d/r) and a '96 legacy OB wagon (2.2, 5spd). I will be moving to California in July and I can only take one with me. I will be going back to school so I need to shave down any extra expense which means only having one car. So which should it be. here's the specs: 1996 legacy OB wagon with 165k. I bought it with 120k on it and I don't know it's service history but aside from a fender bender which gave her a bit of a crooked smile kinda like :cool: and few things which I'll mention in a moment, she has treated me right. The new- Alternator Front tires Timing belt (150k, and sadly not the waterpump... long story) Front and rear O2 sensors Plugs/wires The needs to be new- Radiator/thermostat Rear tires Idle control Valve (or whatever controls the idle, it's always erratic after I've been driving awhile and I restart, like after stopping at a store or something) Front brakes Muffler (broken in above mentioned bumper sandwich) 1989 ea81 hatch with 145k. Just recently aquired, seems to be in pretty decent shape. Starts no problems down to 8 degrees F so far.. The new- Tune up (plugs, wires, cap, rotor, pcv + filter, air filter) Muffler The needs to be new- Front axle shafts Front brakes Front struts (prolly rear too but they can wait) So those are the choices. They both get the same mileage (hatch is a couple points better) so no help there. I lean towards the wagon 'cause it's newer and so maybe more reliable. On the other hand, it's starting to show it's age too so one can assume things will start to go wrong with increasing regularity. Also, I know a lot less about fixing a car with so many things computer controlled. Like when the plugs went bad, it felt like the timing was off, went to check if it needed to be adjusted and... well you all know how that turns out:banghead: I don't like that I can't even read codes without having one of those gizmos. The hatch is older and def. will need attention in the future, mostly having to do with suspension (bushings, ball joints, etc. but really anything can go wrong). But I've got no problem working on stuff and I'm keeping my bike (74 cb550) so I'll have something to get to school/work on if my 4 wheeled ride is up on stands. As for how I use my vehicles, I am into skiing, camping, climbing, biking, bla bla bla. the more secluded the better, offroading to get there the best. But not with as much regularity as I'd like. At least not until I'm done with school and have more free time. So there will be snow and muddy trails being driven but both cars are capable of what I'm likely to encounter as they both have about the same ground clearance. And the one final consideration, ready? drum roll please..... California emissions testing! Yes folks, either way I go it'll have to pass smog. I've gone to the DMV's website to see what they have to say about the subject and they say to check the sticker under the hood to see if it's a California model. The hatch just says that it conforms to "light truck" emissions standards so I've got no idea about that. But I posted a question about that earlier and someone mentioned that the 80's Roos hit the west coast first and were usually up to Cali spec. The wagon's sticker says it's a California model... and then I remembered that I replaced the hood after the accident so I've got no idea what it is. I'll be calling a dealer later to try and see if they can tell from the vin which model it is. So there's the dilemma, sorry it was so long! Any suggestions welcome. And if anyone happens to know how to identify a California model outback and what would need to be changed if it is a 49 state, that would be fantastic. Thanks!!! Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I'm a huge fan of the 2.2. I'm also impressed with the safety of the legacy wagons. I'd go Legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 I'm a huge fan of the 2.2. I'm also impressed with the safety of the legacy wagons. I'd go Legacy. Yes, I've read good things about the 2.2's reliability, and I really like that the engine is non-interference, if only it didn't have timing belts like the ea81. I don't know much about the safety end of it except that it has abs which took some getting used to. Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Lazy Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yes, I've read good things about the 2.2's reliability, and I really like that the engine is non-interference, Will- wish i had a 1996, I have a 1997 2.2 and it is interference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 wish i had a 1996, I have a 1997 2.2 and it is interference Really, I thought all 2.2 were non-interference. Is this the phase II 2.2 that I've seen people mention? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Correct Will, starting in 97 the 2.2 suffers a train crash (of the valve variety) when the T belt says bye bye. Take the OB, better ground clearance, parts availability, chance of passing smog room to carry stuff and so on. Sell me your hatch on the way by, or add a hitch to the OB and tow it as a dingy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 The newer one stays. The other is harder to get parts for when it brakes down. you need something reliable for school. If you decide to get another early sooby, plenty of rust free affordable examples running around to be had. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Plus the Carbed Hatch will be harder to pass through SMOG check. And Harder to get worked on, because most Mechanics nowadays don't remember what a Carb is, let alone how to service a Subaru with one. They just won't want to deal with it, or they'll screw it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Correct Will, starting in 97 the 2.2 suffers a train crash (of the valve variety) when the T belt says bye bye. Take the OB, better ground clearance, parts availability, chance of passing smog room to carry stuff and so on. Sell me your hatch on the way by, or add a hitch to the OB and tow it as a dingy. Ha! If the OB is the choice (and so far it's looking that way) then I'll gladly sell ya the hatch if you're interested. The newer one stays. The other is harder to get parts for when it brakes down. you need something reliable for school. If you decide to get another early sooby, plenty of rust free affordable examples running around to be had. nipper A very good point. The rust doesn't seem too bad by eastcoast standards, but by a west coaster would probably say otherwise. Plus the Carbed Hatch will be harder to pass through SMOG check. And Harder to get worked on, because most Mechanics nowadays don't remember what a Carb is, let alone how to service a Subaru with one. They just won't want to deal with it, or they'll screw it up. Well, I'm my own mechanic which is not always a good thing, but that's the way it is. As far as smog goes, the plot just thickened. I contacted a subaru dealer in California in the county I'm moving to who referred me to Subaru-America's 800 number. I called, and after a VIN check, they told me that my car is a 49 state model. They say it could be anywhere from 4-500 dollars (before labor) to have the car modified to meet Cali smog but couldn't tell what parts specifically needed to be changed. I called the Cali dealer back and told them that it was 49 state and asked what they thought would need to be changed and they said nothing providing all the original equipment was present and working. I don't know who's right but, if I do take the OB, I really wanna try and do whatever work needs doing here where I have a shop space 'cause I still don't know where I'm going to land in Cali and I'm through with stealthy grocery store parking lot repair work. Anyone wanna weigh in on that? Thanks Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I know with old GL/Loyales, there is a dicrimination feature on the ECU. OYu can ground or unground one pin to put it in CALI or 49 state mode. But the Harness is lacking the EGR temp sensor. Could be installed though. I really don't know what to expect for an OBDII car. My understanding is that it all comes down to paying a fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 My understanding is that it all comes down to paying a fee. explain please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivantruckman Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Im 100% in favor of the legacy, so you can sell the hatch to me, will travel for hatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Im 100% in favor of the legacy, so you can sell the hatch to me, will travel for hatch Hmm... I sense an ulterior motive behind your answer, You and Skip will have to duke it out... But if you (or skip) are serious I'll take and send some pics when I get home Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Hi Will, Thanks for the offer but I am way to old for "dukein' " Ivan gets dibs. Couple items you say the OB needs a rad and T-stat it's not overheating is it? As for the "stealer" says this and that. Sounds like a second opinion is needed here. We have quite a few Cali folk here. Maybe one can recco a good stealer (oxymoron I know) to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Couple itemsyou say the OB needs a rad and T-stat it's not overheating is it? It's had some odd behavior in the cooling department for a bit now. One day on the freeway in traffic it started to overheat, got a bit above .5 on the dial then dropped really suddenly (coinciding with the acceleration following the ease in traffic), back to normal which for this car has always been just covering the little water lines on the gauge. When I got to work I checked the coolant level and it was low so I added and it was fine for the next few months. Then sometime after the afore mentioned bumper sandwich it started to run hot on a regular basis (about .5 up the dial) but only when I was pointed even just slightly uphill and only at low rpm (2k or less). If I down shift it usually will return to normal. The rad wasn't damaged in the accident as far as I can tell. If it wasn't for the overheating incident before the accident I would've suspected either a kink in the hose letting some air in or some of the rad's tubes getting blocked. My other thought was a thermostat not opening all the way. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I didn't change the water pump when I did the timing belt. I was given the wrong pump and the right one was not to be had for a several days and at the time the legy was my only way to get to work. But the water pump isn't making any noise I can hear and no leaks, so I dunno. We have quite a few Cali folk here.Maybe one can recco a good stealer (oxymoron I know) to you. Yes please:) Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Timing belt (150k, and sadly not the waterpump... long story) hmmm -waterpump not replaced you say?? and slight overheating issues that go away with acceleration? hmmm....Waterpump going south perhaps? if she is running on her original pump, that would get my vote... as for the emissions - I would find out what the numbers need to be for Cali, then find a shop somewhere local to you that can test it for you - would give you a general idea of what, if anything, needs to be done. would toss my hat in the ring for that hatch, but too far away - yet again....:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 explain please... From what i can see they dropped the fee. You used to have to pay a fee to import a car into california from another state. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 hmmm -waterpump not replaced you say?? and slight overheating issues that go away with acceleration? hmmm....Waterpump going south perhaps?if she is running on her original pump, that would get my vote... as for the emissions - I would find out what the numbers need to be for Cali, then find a shop somewhere local to you that can test it for you - would give you a general idea of what, if anything, needs to be done. would toss my hat in the ring for that hatch, but too far away - yet again....:-\ Yeah... I'm not sure which it is. I kick myself for not changing it, but I live 50 miles from work with no public transit option and this happened before I had the hatch and my bike was still in boxes, so it HAD to be back on the road, I couldn't wait for the correct pump. But since I'll be keeping the OB, as it looks like the OB is the obvious favorite and I promised myself (and my wife) that I would abide by the popular vote, I'm going to suck it up and replace the t-belt (again, already did the pullys/tensioner tho), t-stat, water pump, rad, and whatever parts I find out about for the Cali emissions thing. I need to do whatever work I'm going to do now before I loose my shop space. Not looking forward as it was a PITA to do. Anything else in the preventative maint. dept.? From what i can see they dropped the fee. You used to have to pay a fee to import a car into california from another state. nipper Yeah the "fee calculator" has me paying about $75 Your books have anything interesting to say about the emissions gear? (edit, sorry just saw your response about the books on the other thread, thanks anyway!!) Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 what part of california are you going to be at? SMOG rules differ depending on where you are located. RE: registering a non-cali car, send a PM to crabman. He is in the process of getting a 1st Gen BRAT registered in the Los Angeles area. He might provide some insight and help. Supernova was able to convert a Hatch to SPFI and get it to pass smog. here is the link http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=72183&highlight=supernova Depending on what area you area you are going to end up in, legacy's are pretty cheap. Craigslist Orange County has 3 pre 1997 Legs under 2,500. Craigslist Los Angeles has 5 of them for under 2,500. EA81's are getting pretty scarce. They either end up getting junked or people want 3k for them b/c they are cherry. give me a PM if you have any questions about this. BW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I've had 49 state cars pass California smog. My old '88 sedan was a 49 state car, and it passed with flying colors. All depends on who you go to, also. I'd go with the Legacy personally, and later on get an older one to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I would worry about emissions only if it fails. Modern cat's are so good at cleaning up the exhaust, cars usually exceed the standards for that cars year of mfg. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinthe202 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 I would worry about emissions only if it fails. Modern cat's are so good at cleaning up the exhaust, cars usually exceed the standards for that cars year of mfg. nipper Yep, called three Cali dealers and each said that it should pass smog fine as long as all the original equipment is working properly. Soooooooo, That being the case, anyone wanna buy a hatch? I'll post in the "for sale" this weekend when I can take some pics. Thanks ya'll!! Will- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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