Jeepman775 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 Really. I didn't know that. I am suprised. How much of a difference in price are we looking at as far as usdm-jdm motor swap??? I won't lie my exp. is in 4x4 offroad. I.E. jeeps, samurais, things like that. I have done a bunch with the EA82 subies. (SPFI - MPFI Turbo) However, not too much with anything like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 well, it all depends what motor you get exactly. the later ones are pretty pricey.....but you can get an older EJ20G for a pretty reasonable price, and easily break 300awhp. suberdave is running one in his wagon. downside.....only the USDM ones are the 2.5l. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 I would like 2.5L, but if the price difference is negligable I might be interested. You guys know some good sources for clips/ totaled cars?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I would like 2.5L, but if the price difference is negligable I might be interested. You guys know some good sources for clips/ totaled cars?? best way is to find local insurance auctions. find a car that's been totaled, but is repairable. and look for something where most of the damage is in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 AHHHH good call. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I would like 2.5L, but if the price difference is negligable I might be interested. The difference is quite noticable between a wrecked GDB and GDA, but there are other ways of slipping a 2.5 into your car. However, you can pick up an OEM EJ257 shortblock in this part of the country for about $1,700. When engine blew in my buddy's GGA (didn't blow) he installed this short block and ported WRX heads with larger valves with some mild bolt ons and a reflash, its almost a dead heat versus our bone stock '07 STI in a straight line. I think he dyno'd at 230+ awHP and 260+ awTQ. That is an option too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 Then you'd start out with a fresh shortblock as well which is nice. Any of you guys have quarter mile times between all these different swaps? What's the performance differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I don't think that a 13 second quarter mile is out of the question with enough HP and a hard enough launch. I saw a video of a 285 HP Justy STI run a 12.97 last night. Might have been a little faster, I don't recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rguyver Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 my Brat will do a low 13 high 12 in the 1/4 , but i have a lot of wheel spin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 There's guy's at legacycentral pulling in 12's with modded EJ22T's. Some pretty heavily modded of course - to the point of blowing up JDM WRX transmissions. STi stuff - the recent US versions anyway - are far more complicated than they need to be with reggard to swapping into an EA82 body. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Why is that? Wireing. This swap is all about wireing. The mechanical side pales by comparison. USDM STi's are fly-by-wire throttle.... you have the DCCD, etc. Wheel speed sensors were never an option on the EA82 chassis (never had ABS), so modified axles with sensor ring's are needed, etc, etc. Plus the GL suspension sucks, the steering sucks, the brakes suck, the body has no real stiffness, the interior's suck, the seats suck, etc, etc. Basically they do a whole lot of sucking in general. Great for an affordable, 4WD family beater though. You are talking about building a whole new vehicle using only the body of a GL. That's fine. So long as you realize that this is less a retro-fit, and more of a body-swap. NOTHING will match up. Many guages won't work with the newer sensors, etc. If you want an older-looking Subaru sleeper, then get a Gen 1 Legacy Turbo. At least then you can benefit from all the EJ bolt-on's. If you *really* want it, it can be done. But the cost is prohibitive, and the car will never handle or ride like an STi - the suspension is just too primitive and there's no good ways around that short of big $$ into custom parts. You can make it better than it was for sure, but it will still be a hazard to drive with 300+ HP. I'm just pointing out that there's a lot more to consider than massive HP. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 What's the body code for a Gen 1 Legacy? As far as bolt on, how much actually bolts on with a Legacy? Is the wireing easier? Where have you guys gotten your JDM swaps? As far a usdm sti's are all of them fly by wire? Sorry for the questions but I am just looking for my best route with this build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 What's the body code for a Gen 1 Legacy? Body code? As in the VIN body code? It's BC for the sedan, or BF for the wagon. As far as bolt on, how much actually bolts on with a Legacy? LOTS. As in virtually everything made for the suspensions (up to '06 or so), wheels, etc. All the tranny's share the same bell-housing. Shift linkage is very, very similar. Axles, diffs, etc, etc. The Gen 1 Legacy (90 to 94) is the first generation of the EJ series. They are still working off that same platform as of '08 (with many changes of course, but basically the same design engine and tranny wise). Is the wireing easier? Yes. The wireing is a LOT easier. Where have you guys gotten your JDM swaps? I would ask around on NASIOC - lots more folks there with experience on the JDM vendor side of things. Legacycentral.org as well - which is an excelent resource for those of us with (or thinking of getting) an EJ22T. As far a usdm sti's are all of them fly by wire? I beleive that is correct. If not then they switched rather quickly. Sorry for the questions but I am just looking for my best route with this build. It's understandable. I just hate to see so much effort thrown at a project like this and then have you feel like it was a waste of money. Anything can be done, but you mentioned you have a budget. I think the cost-overuns would put you in the poor house. The Gen 1 Legacy turbo is a sweet machine. Colin McRea actually rallied one for a year or two.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 I actually kind of like the looks of the GF. I am checking out weight and such right now, I think I might go this way. I am assuming no, but the RS hoods wouldn't happen to bolt in would they??? The ones that look like the JDM STi's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I actually kind of like the looks of the GF. I am checking out weight and such right now, I think I might go this way. I am assuming no, but the RS hoods wouldn't happen to bolt in would they??? The ones that look like the JDM STi's. no the stock RS hood does not bolt onto a legacy. however. there are fiberglass repro hoods and bumpers floating around... hard to find and expencive... if you want an impreza then get an impreza... if you're swapping it anyways, might aswell get a 93 impreza or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 tried to post this last night....but the site stopped responding.... Wireing. This swap is all about wireing. The mechanical side pales by comparison. USDM STi's are fly-by-wire throttle.... you have the DCCD, etc. Wheel speed sensors were never an option on the EA82 chassis (never had ABS), so modified axles with sensor ring's are needed, etc, etc. Plus the GL suspension sucks, the steering sucks, the brakes suck, the body has no real stiffness, the interior's suck, the seats suck, etc, etc. Basically they do a whole lot of sucking in general. Great for an affordable, 4WD family beater though. You are talking about building a whole new vehicle using only the body of a GL. That's fine. So long as you realize that this is less a retro-fit, and more of a body-swap. NOTHING will match up. Many guages won't work with the newer sensors, etc. I've mentioned much of this, and solutions for most of it. the DBW (drive-by-wire....you'll see this acronym on the big impreza forums) means you'll need to swap the pedal box. which you'll already have to do for the hydraulic clutch. the signal for the tach is the same, you can put the speedo gear from any 5-speed in place of the electronic sensor in the 6-speed. and run the EA speedo cable and speedo. the temp gauge signal will work just like any other EJ swap, the EJ257 still only has an idiot light for the oil pressure....so wire in an LED (or re-use one of the existing idiot lights). you'll need to modify the radiator support to use the STi radiator, but that's been done and documented. the stock DCCD controller depends on the stock ABS system. which you're just not going to retrofit onto an EA car.....but, there are aftermarket controllers specifically designed for non-abs cars (buddy of mine just installed it in his '93 legacy). or, run without it and run with uber rear-bias. the interior stuff is a matter of opinion....I personally like the simple interior with my XT6 seat upgrade. and caboobaroo has just documented STi seats in his coupe. yes, brakes suck stock, which is why I say you MUST go 5-lug. once you've tracked down XT6 rear hubs, you can run the STi brakes at all 4 corners. there are lots of suspension options if you use the EJ front knuckles. anything from full coilovers, to eibach sleeves and KYB GR2s. use some XT6 sway bars, whiteline makes poly bushings. steering is great with good tires. I love the way my car handles! the XT steering rack's quicker ratio helps some....I'm currently talking with L&E fab about making a quick ratio steering column......but that'll be some $$$. only thing you can't solve is the fact that the EA82s have the torsional rigidity of a wet noodle.....but, I think with a little bracing that could be drastically improved. but the other side of that coin, is they weigh less than any EJ series subaru. an EA82 car will easily weigh ~500lbs less than a similarly equipped (tranny, body style...) first gen legacy. you won't be able to please the computer entirely, but with some openECU and/or Enginuity tuning, you can get rid of the check engine lights, and compensate. the STi uses a fuel pump controller, and the best way to deal with this when swapping into a GC impreza body (for example) is to swap the whole STi pump unit into the tank. but the EJ pumps are in-tank, whereas the EA ones are in-line. so you'll have to get a bit creative. and you probably won't be able to use the fuel temp sensor, but that'll just throw a code. an EJ257 can go where an EJ22e was, and an EJ22e can go where an EA82 was. all the information for both swaps has been documented (I've helped or done a couple of each). just put the puzzle pieces together. many people like to buy early imprezas (only thing even close in weight to an EA82, and still heavier by a couple hundred pounds), and STi swap them. that's a similar amount of work. entire suspension, brakes, wiring, drivetrain, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 9, 2008 Author Share Posted February 9, 2008 What about an X Brace? That would give it some serious rigidity. Can the fuel temp sensor be relocated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 9, 2008 Author Share Posted February 9, 2008 How have you guys been lowering the ea's when you have EJ knuckles and stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 you might be able to retrofit the fuel temp sensor.....but like I said, it'll just throw a code without it, it'll still run fine. that's pretty low on the list of priorities in a project like this. not sure exactly what you're referring to with an X-brace. but the solution won't be any one thing. the entire body needs braced. ideally, a full roll cage that ties into the rear shock towers. as well as fender braces, and a front strut tower brace that ties into the firewall. no small project, but nothing that a couple hundred pounds of tubing and a welder couldn't fix. as for lowering. coilover sleeves. I think I've typed those 2 words 4 or 5 times in the last few days between here and the NASIOC old-gen forum. suspension setups have been discussed time and time again. look around a bit. actually.....every question you've asked has been mentioned in quantity either here or on NASIOC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rguyver Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 some of the modification's suggestions are getting a bit out there ! what is the cars final purpose ? track car , drag car , street racing ? or just to kick some mustangs rump roast off the light on the daily commute ? the stock body and suspension is fine for the most part , brakes and tires would be a must for safety . I would drive my 83 brat with stock suspension, brakes and no body stiffener with a VER8 sti engine and tranny with stock R160 rear and it would be fine for years you would have to drive it like it was a hand grenade just dont pull the pin unless you are prepared to die but for a daily driver it would be fine . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share Posted February 10, 2008 It is just going to be a street/ fun car not a 1/4 mile v-8 raper. So long as it handles well; and is fast when I hit the gas, I am happy. However, when I do this I am going to do it right. I want a daily driver, but done right. If that makes sense? (it won't be a track car) Just something that's AWD, that I can drive when my Isuzu Hombre/ Jeep/ 4X4 Ranger won't get me there, or is not fun enough. By the way Jeep/ Ranger's suck in snow. Short wheelbase/ light rearend (even 4x4. I know I grew up in Tahoe, CA). An X-Brace is a hotrodder/ track racer framebrace. It looks like an X with an H superimposed upon it. They have two rails which parallel the frame/unibody, with an X running from Top to Bottom in an X formation........ Basically super impose an X and an H. The brace would run from rear of front wheel well, to front of rear wheel well, on both sides. If that clarifies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyoas759 Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I can't keep up with all the technical stuff of this sort of swap, but saw this the other week and thought I'd share. It's very inspirational to watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enMDCVKVjUc Now if he were to put a lift kit and some swampers on there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman775 Posted March 2, 2008 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 What exactly is the swap ability into the early 90's Imprezas? What can I expect as far bolt ons? I would really like an EA wagon, however if an early Impreza is a near bolt, on except for wireing, I may be very interested. I am curious as to the extint of a near complete mechanical swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s'ko Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 An X-Brace is a hotrodder/ track racer framebrace. It looks like an X with an H superimposed upon it. They have two rails which parallel the frame/unibody, with an X running from Top to Bottom in an X formation........ Basically super impose an X and an H. The brace would run from rear of front wheel well, to front of rear wheel well, on both sides. If that clarifies. Trying to wrap my brain around this one. I think that you would have problems with the brace hitting your axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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