mountainwalker Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 After rereading the posts and what I had, I've narrowed to: BF Goodrich - Traction T/A BF Goodrich - Touring T/A Pro Series H/V Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S (#1 rated on Tirerack.com, though haven't heard anything about them except from one poster here who was thinking about them - just impressed by the tirerack rating) Goodyear Fortera Triple Tread Only question about BF Goodrich - is there a big difference between the Traction T/A and Touring T/A? I'm just really psyched to pick up our subie at this point. And wiped our from our move. Thank you again to all who helped us pick the right car and set it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StructEngineer Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 After rereading the posts and what I had, I've narrowed to: BF Goodrich - Traction T/A BF Goodrich - Touring T/A Pro Series H/V Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S (#1 rated on Tirerack.com, though haven't heard anything about them except from one poster here who was thinking about them - just impressed by the tirerack rating) Goodyear Fortera Triple Tread Only question about BF Goodrich - is there a big difference between the Traction T/A and Touring T/A? I'm just really psyched to pick up our subie at this point. And wiped our from our move. Thank you again to all who helped us pick the right car and set it up. FWIW, I don't ever trust tirerack reps. They are sales people trying to sell a product. The company as a whole is trying to use "research" as a marketing tool, while I really question how biased the "research" really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NV Zeno Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 In my business I drive multple vehicles in all kinds of conditions around Tahoe and Reno, including all the Subaru products. I've found that the bone stock Outback with the "factory issue" tires is by far the best vehicle in the snow, bar none. Whatever tires those are (I'll try and remember to look today) work great (and I'm sure you know about Tahoe snow and ice:rolleyes:). Just my 2 bucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwalker Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 In my business I drive multple vehicles in all kinds of conditions around Tahoe and Reno, including all the Subaru products. I've found that the bone stock Outback with the "factory issue" tires is by far the best vehicle in the snow, bar none. Whatever tires those are (I'll try and remember to look today) work great (and I'm sure you know about Tahoe snow and ice:rolleyes:). Just my 2 bucks NV Zeno I'd love to know which tires those are. You're my perfect test case. Nice weather most of the year, Tahoe ice and snow during winter. The ones I listed sound very promising as well, but as StructEngineer said, I'm not sure how much I trust Tirerack research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwalker Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 FWIW, I don't ever trust tirerack reps. They are sales people trying to sell a product. The company as a whole is trying to use "research" as a marketing tool, while I really question how biased the "research" really is. I'd have to agree - I'm skeptical too. I wanted to ask you - do you know if there's any noticeable difference between the BF Goodrich - Traction T/A and BF Goodrich - Touring T/A Pro Series H/V? Which do you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwalker Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 Anyone know max tire size I can get for a 2003 Outback VDC to allow chains in winter? Asked the question in this thread and was warned by one poster that I might not be able to use chains. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?p=742798#post742798 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98obster Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Anyone know max tire size I can get for a 2003 Outback VDC to allow chains in winter? Asked the question in this thread and was warned by one poster that I might not be able to use chains. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?p=742798#post742798 http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2003.html I'd probably stick to the OE size-perhaps 215s if you think your gonna hit the deep stuff (narrow is better for snow) and probably a little better mpg. I would just add another .02 that chains on a subie are like wearing a belt and suspenders-rarely needed (as long as the belt works that is). you also need to think about when you would be chaining up and realize that you wouldn't be going much over 30mph in them. So, I would continue to recommend a M+S snowflake tire rather than putting on chains in a blizzard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwalker Posted June 13, 2008 Author Share Posted June 13, 2008 http://www.cars101.com/subaru/outback/outback2003.html I'd probably stick to the OE size-perhaps 215s if you think your gonna hit the deep stuff (narrow is better for snow) and probably a little better mpg. I would just add another .02 that chains on a subie are like wearing a belt and suspenders-rarely needed (as long as the belt works that is). you also need to think about when you would be chaining up and realize that you wouldn't be going much over 30mph in them. So, I would continue to recommend a M+S snowflake tire rather than putting on chains in a blizzard. OE? Do you mean OEM? When I checked online car dealers without taking chains into consideration, they showed I needed 225/60R16. From what I've heard of the Outback, esp with the VDC anti-slip, you may be right except for all but the iciest and worst snow conditions, though I thought chains might be useful for a last 10-20 minute ascent to a ski area. Since I've never driven an Outback, I have no idea what to expect in terms of handling. M + S? From what I've read it doesn't sound worth it for us to put snow tires on the Outback for a 3 hour drive to Tahoe in fair weather, with a last 1 hour or so of winter weather. If we lived in Tahoe full time, or any other snow area, we'd definitely put snows on for the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98obster Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 OE? Do you mean OEM? When I checked online car dealers without taking chains into consideration, they showed I needed 225/60R16. From what I've heard of the Outback, esp with the VDC anti-slip, you may be right except for all but the iciest and worst snow conditions, though I thought chains might be useful for a last 10-20 minute ascent to a ski area. Since I've never driven an Outback, I have no idea what to expect in terms of handling. M + S? From what I've read it doesn't sound worth it for us to put snow tires on the Outback for a 3 hour drive to Tahoe in fair weather, with a last 1 hour or so of winter weather. If we lived in Tahoe full time, or any other snow area, we'd definitely put snows on for the winter. M + S is "mountains and snow" severe service and iirc will be indicated by a snowflake and often with a Mountain symbol on studdable tires. and when we are talking about chains-we mean cables right? Subarus are amazing vehicles on snowpacked roads with adequate tire-I would assume any ski area would at least clear the road for access with adequate snow tires. My experience with all seasons is that they are higher tread wear and may not give the same winter performance after a season or 2. another trick to increase traction is to let a few lbs of pressure out of the tire to increase the contact patch. jeez, winter seems so far away right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NV Zeno Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 NV Zeno I'd love to know which tires those are. You're my perfect test case. Nice weather most of the year, Tahoe ice and snow during winter. The ones I listed sound very promising as well, but as StructEngineer said, I'm not sure how much I trust Tirerack research. I looked at two '08 Outbacks today, and like a knucklehead didn't write down the tire details:banghead: . I do remember that they were Bridgestone Potenza, can't remember the series number or even the size. About the size, we get the upgrade aluminum rims (non turbo model), so if anyone knows the diameter of those that's half the battle. I'll research some more, and report back here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAezb Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 I'm looking for new tires as well, wrong coast though... I'll mention upfront that we don't get too much snow here (only two or three times this past year) so I run all-seasons year round. If I lived in a more snowy place I would probably have winter snows. Currently running Yokohama Avid V4s, which are great grip wise, but I'm not thrilled with the wear. I run the Yokohama's H4s on my 05 OB XT. Went with the "H" rating to improve tread life over the "V" rating. Got 45k of "good" tread life on my first set, and just had a new set put on last week. In hot or cold, dry or wet weather, or any combination thereof, they grip and handle well. Another plus is they are quiet and comfortable. But if you drive em on anything frozen, all bets are off - well below average traction. The 96 OBW has been shoe'd 3 times with Yoko Avid Tourings which I highly recommend as a good all season budget tire. They handle snow fairly well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwalker Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 The Costco where I was going to meet the seller of our Outback may not have the BF Goodrich Touring T/A in the Outback size in time for when we meet, but might. Right now I'm trying to decide between: -BFG Touring T/A (at Costco at $96 now with $60 discount on set of 4) -BFG Traction T/A (at Costco at $106 now with $60 discount on set of 4) -Michellin Primacy MX4 (at Costco now $149 with $60 discount on set of 4) -Michellin Exalto A/S (haven't heard anything about them from anyone I know; rated very highly on Tirerack, but suspicious of their ratings/research). Can anyone comment on the noise level of the Traction T/A versus the Touring and the Michellins, and on how long lasting they all are? Anyone try the Michellin Exalto? Couldn't find them on Tirerack in the Outback size for some reason. I'd like a tire that isn't too soft and handles well, very good traction in dry and wet, asphalt and concrete, good general winter performance (I don't expect snow tire performance) and not too noisy. Some noise is OK. If you can't tell, I'm crazy particular about tires every since an incident I had in college just after I purchased a used Volvo 240. The tires appeared to have plenty of life - yet in a first rainstorm, going around a curve on the side of a mountain at only about 25mph with one lane in each direction, not making any sudden movements on the wheel, the car fishtailed 180 degrees - I was very lucky I was able to keep the car on the inside of the road against the mountain, and suffered not a scratch, though got a massive adrenalin infusion). I suspect it was oil that leaks down the side of the mountain from the town above that made that stretch extra slick. However, lesson learned. I went out and got one of the best Michellin traction tires and never had a similar problem again. The entire handling of the car changed with those tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Take a look at the Goodyear Assurance triple tread. They are one of the best rated tyres on the Tire rack site. When I'm ready for tyres that's what i'll be getting and we have 9 monthes of winter here Later, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 we have 9 monthes of winter here Later, Tim The Dakotas... 9 months of winter and the rest is 3 months of bad sledding:lol: I have yet to try the Goodyear Triple tread but haven't been impressed with the other makes and models I've tried, so next time I will put them in the game and see how they do at bat. If there is any inceased cost associated with changing tires with the pressure monitoring sysems, longer life tires will result in a better payback over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 With 30yrs of experience driving in Canadian winters I can say that the depth of the snow has little to do with which tires you should use. Whether there's 1/2" or 3 " on the road, once it's deeper than the tread on your tires, it's all the same....and once that first 1/2 is on the road, your "all season" tires are almost no better than summer tires. I've always run Blizzaks on both of my Subarus and love them. They are only a bit noisier than the Michelins which came on the car and they wear quite well......actually, as we speak, I haven't taken them off yet...and it was 80°F here all week-end.:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlit Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 With 30yrs of experience driving in Canadian winters I can say that the depth of the snow has little to do with which tires you should use. Whether there's 1/2" or 3 " on the road, once it's deeper than the tread on your tires, it's all the same....and once that first 1/2 is on the road, your "all season" tires are almost no better than summer tires. I've always run Blizzaks on both of my Subarus and love them. They are only a bit noisier than the Michelins which came on the car and they wear quite well......actually, as we speak, I haven't taken them off yet...and it was 80°F here all week-end.:-\ I wouldn't want to put up with the poor handling of a Blizzak over the entire season just for a few ski trips. I tried a set of Blizzaks one year and thought it was a complete waste of money. I didnt see enough improvement over my allseasons to make it worthwhile unless I was driving in snow/frigid cold more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98obster Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 With 30yrs of experience driving in Canadian winters I can say that the depth of the snow has little to do with which tires you should use. Whether there's 1/2" or 3 " on the road, once it's deeper than the tread on your tires, it's all the same....and once that first 1/2 is on the road, your "all season" tires are almost no better than summer tires. I've always run Blizzaks on both of my Subarus and love them. They are only a bit noisier than the Michelins which came on the car and they wear quite well......actually, as we speak, I haven't taken them off yet...and it was 80°F here all week-end.:-\ Chip, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? what do you mean by depth? I've driven on hardpack roads with at least 3 inches and of course the snow/dirt whatever will fill the tread-that's the point. everything is connected-the tire is connected to the snow the snow is connected to other snow on the road etc. etc. -if you're not connected you're not in control. Most "All seasons" perform better in light snow conditions than a dedicated summer tire which is trying to maximize footprint with some rain shedding capibilities. Since you're running Blizzaks year round you will probably see a season (probably their last) where they are no better than a good all season. It all comes down to money and performance. So many subaru owners in temperate climates buy dedicated snow sets it can't be a coincidence. personally, I think All Season only applies if you live in Hawaii. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NV Zeno Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 NV Zeno I'd love to know which tires those are. You're my perfect test case. Nice weather most of the year, Tahoe ice and snow during winter. The ones I listed sound very promising as well, but as StructEngineer said, I'm not sure how much I trust Tirerack research. FWIW, here's my follow up, if a bit late:rolleyes: : Bridgestone Potenza RE92A 225/55/17 M+S Just my 2 bucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Chip, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? what do you mean by depth? I've driven on hardpack roads with at least 3 inches and of course the snow/dirt whatever will fill the tread-that's the point. everything is connected-the tire is connected to the snow the snow is connected to other snow on the road etc. etc. -if you're not connected you're not in control. Most "All seasons" perform better in light snow conditions than a dedicated summer tire which is trying to maximize footprint with some rain shedding capibilities. Since you're running Blizzaks year round you will probably see a season (probably their last) where they are no better than a good all season. It all comes down to money and performance. So many subaru owners in temperate climates buy dedicated snow sets it can't be a coincidence. personally, I think All Season only applies if you live in Hawaii. I agree with you completely..... Like I said in my post "and once that first 1/2 is on the road, your "all season" tires are almost no better than summer tires." Winter tires are the only way to go....regardless how deep the snow is. Earlier posts mentionned that they'd do to dedicated snow tires if the depth of the snow warranted it....but it's irrelavent once there's enough snow to fill the tread depth of your all season tires.....even 1/2 inch of snow will cause an all season tire to perform only a bit better than a summer tire. I don't normally leave them on all year...normally in April they're off but this year, due to procrastination,(and budget constraints), they're still on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 Actually, in very cold conditions (-20 deg. C and below), new all season tires seem to work OK. I ran them on a rental car in Northern Alberta all winter, and never had any traction problems. Even in spring breakup, they were fine. The week the snow started to melt, I was the only one in the apartment who could get into or out of the parking lot. FWD Pontiac with ABS, and it was only extreme braking that ever gave me problems. For driving on snowy or icy highways, when temperatures are -10 and above, winter tires all the way! Didn't have to deal with any of that, that winter, it was always colder, and the snow doesn't stay on the roads there, it blows off. Much different now I am living here on the north coast of BC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobyclimbs Posted June 17, 2008 Share Posted June 17, 2008 I've had great luck with Bf goodrich traction ta H rated in upto 8"of snow without chains...I am on my second set but upgraded to the sticker v-rated. These tires are great handling in wet, dry and don't squeal when you push the limits on the twisties... . just bring a two sets of cable chains for mtn travel. They are great on gravel too...for those mtn roads.. If you've got the cash get a set of Nokian hakkapaletias with or without studs they are the #1 winter rated tire in the world.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Starting this year, in Quebec, it will be mandatory to have snow tires on a car after a certain date...I think it's Nov 1st. I believe in some places in Europe the same law applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aircraft engineer Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Your nanny government at work? They seem to forget that the MAIN problem isn't GO - it's STOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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