98sub2500leg Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Engine: EJ25, DOHC, year: Aug 98; Phase1 (non turbo charged) I need exact info here pertaining to a EJ25 phase 1 for the year above regarding the tightening sequence for the cam bearing caps. Are all EJ25's tightened in the same sequence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 you're talking about the two bolts holding the cap on with the oring underneath? there's nothing special about those. you install the cap and tighten the bolts. takes me about 4 seconds, i don't follow any specific procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Engine: EJ25, DOHC, year: Aug 98; Phase1 (non turbo charged) I need exact info here pertaining to a EJ25 phase 1 for the year above regarding the tightening sequence for the cam bearing caps. Are all EJ25's tightened in the same sequence? Middle out, inside out, with a torque of 13 ft lbs. It is aluminum and you can pull the threads with too much torque. I also add a touch of anti-sieze to the threads of each bolt, out of habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I snapped a couple of those one time - not pleasant. The ones at the front of the engine are a different(less) torque than the other 6 per cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 +1^...Those bolts break VERY easily...just be careful not to over torque... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I am pretty sure that the torque for the front caps is 92 inch LBS and the others is 15 ft lbs. I can check on tuesday when I get to my list. You definitely do not want to over torque them as they will break or you will pull out the threads. I had a friend snap one of the bolts and we had to remove the engine to drill it out after I found out and the engine was already installed. I wasn't very happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I don't torque those anymore, they break too easy. I just snug them with a ratchet hand tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron917 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Here are the relevant pages from the '99 FSM. Should be the same for your '98. Edited June 1, 2009 by ron917 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Excellent FSM info. If he's following the Endwrench article it MAY have it. I say may because I try to follow directions pretty closely and missed the different torque's on the different cam cap bolts. Luckily I had another set of 97 heads torn apart so I had some here. I did get me some spiffy new EZ outs though. Not much room for error when youi're working on heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 I say may because I try to follow directions pretty closely and missed the different torque's on the different cam cap bolts. I did as well. Why on earth would you have different torque on the intake and exhaust cams. The both have the same amount of load on them. I wonder of that is a typo. I could see the front bolts being more than the rest but not top to bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 The front ones have half the torque as the others. The shaft of the bolt is also thinner. I believe the just posted FSM pages show this as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron917 Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Hmm, yeah, the diagram from the FSM isn't real clear. It shows the top, rear intake bolt at 20 Nm. And the front, lower exhaust bolt at 10 Nm. There's a total of 12 bolts, and we have a spec for only 2 of them that is different with no explanation. If you didn't already know that the bolts on the front cam bearing caps (on both camshafts) were different from the others, that diagram would be open to a variety of interpretations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 Good feedback here guys, thanks. I can't help wonder: if the correct torque was used and the bolts broke,it maybe possible that the temper changed over time from the heat? I am wondering if I should be replace all of them to be safe? On the FSM, there is a site with a free download, same as Ron showed. However it claims to be the factory service manual. It looks convincing and probably is, but can't be too sure since I have not seen the actual FSM. The data so far is accurate. The page #'s seem to skip, but I believe the webmaster must had intentionally edited them on purpose. I read that the FSM(book) is hard to read and you need to skip sections to get all the info on what your working on. I have a (May)98 Sub Outback 2.5L DOHC, MT but they only list manuals for 97 & 99 so I am in between. I downloaded the 99 manual(haven't checked the 99, vs 97 yet-good size download). Dave, this is where I got it from: http://www.onlinefreeebooks.net/automotive-machinery-power-equipment-ebooks/subaru/ My problem is verifying info, I have 3 different manuals with some conflicting info. Some posts show different torque ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaru360 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Good feedback here guys, thanks. I can't help wonder: if the correct torque was used and the bolts broke,it maybe possible that the temper changed over time from the heat? I am wondering if I should be replace all of them to be safe? On the FSM, there is a site with a free download, same as Ron showed. However it claims to be the factory service manual. It looks convincing and probably is, but can't be too sure since I have not seen the actual FSM. The data so far is accurate. The page #'s seem to skip, but I believe the webmaster must had intentionally edited them on purpose. I read that the FSM(book) is hard to read and you need to skip sections to get all the info on what your working on. I have a (May)98 Sub Outback 2.5L DOHC, MT but they only list manuals for 97 & 99 so I am in between. I downloaded the 99 manual(haven't checked the 99, vs 97 yet-good size download). Dave, this is where I got it from: http://www.onlinefreeebooks.net/automotive-machinery-power-equipment-ebooks/subaru/ My problem is verifying info, I have 3 different manuals with some conflicting info. Some posts show different torque ratings. The manuals have been updated a few times because of the snapping bolts issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I downloaded the 97 & 99 FSM's from there a while ago. And another site for the 2.2's that I don't recall. I don't recall if I was following the Endwrench article, the FSM, or the procedure from a fella's writeup from his comcast website. Subaru360 was probably one of the folks who helped me out when I snapped mine off. So follow the procedure with much less torque for the front bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I have done several of these motors. If you follow the rule of 92 INCH-lbs for the front they shouldn't snap. Then do the others at 15 ft-lbs. This is directly out the Mitchell manual that ASE certified mechanics use. They give the exact subaru specs. Look athe bolts before you put them back in. If they look thin in the thread to bolt area, then they have been over tightned and you should replace them. If the thickness is uniform all the way down the shaft of the bolt, you are good to go. Believe me, you will see if the bolt has been stretched. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 I am the original owner so I know these haven't been touched since I bought the car. This brings up the issue of torque wrenches, which I know has been beat to death. I bought a cheapie clutch type which failed to work on the water pump. I bought a Craftsman 1/2" digitork 25-250 ft lbs. mainly for the head bolts. I still need another for inch lbs. I know the Snap on are better, not sure on pricing. This is a tool I won't use all that often. I'm thinking the beam type should be ok for in-lbs. Thanks again for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 I say may because I try to follow directions pretty closely and missed the different torque's on the different cam cap bolts. I did as well. Why on earth would you have different torque on the intake and exhaust cams. The both have the same amount of load on them. I wonder of that is a typo. I could see the front bolts being more than the rest but not top to bottom. The front bearing caps with the seal use a #6mm x1.0 and the 2 other bearing caps use a #8mm x 1.25 (big difference). Also, the bolts on the front #6 bolts look possibly compromised from what appears to be coolant corrosion. They look similar in appearance to the water pump bolts (also coolant corrosion). I bought new water pump bolts to be safe. I forgot to re-order new bolts for these and they will take too long to get in so I chased those threads with a bottoming tap and cleaned up the bolts. I'm feeling confident enough to reuse them as long as I torque them to the proper specs. which should be somewhere close to snug or just past it. They certainly didn't take much effort to remove. I used seal grease on and around the seals and assembly grease around the bearings, journals, lobes & lifters. I applied the ultragrey around in the appropriate spots on the bearing caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Look at my post. I have given you the exact specs. 92 inch-lbs is just at tight. I used to go by feel, but after I saw one snapped, I always used a torque wrench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Look at my post. I have given you the exact specs. 92 inch-lbs is just at tight. I used to go by feel, but after I saw one snapped, I always used a torque wrench. Thanks for those, I used them. I was elaborating on another post asking why the difference in torque on front bearing cap bolts vs the other 4 bolts pertaining to the mid & rear bearing caps. The given torque specs is what I would refer to like others as basically being a snug fit. I couldn't ever imagine those bolts snapping unless they were really overtorqued or unless the temper changed drastically from overheating. I probably should have changed mine since they had coolant corrosion on the 6mm's to be safe, but they held up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 The only ones I saw snap were the ones on the front caps. Glad you got it back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98sub2500leg Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Thanks, and believe me, so am I. Actually, I used a paint marker on nearly every bolt I removed, and assigned each one with a # on the adjoining surface. I make a paint reference mark on the bolt and adjoining surface. So I re-install the same bolt in the same hole and match to the same threads. So far on re-installation, the marks line up exactly they used to be and also correspond to the correct torque values. I still check it with the torque wrench to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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