rub2race Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Hello all, Looking for a little advice. I am pretty new to the Subaru. I bought a 00 Outback Wagon with 260k on the clock. Engine is a phase II sohc. I bought it knowing it gets warm out of the blue and the reserve fills itself up. Also needs a couple of regular common repairs. Smells and tests for exh in the reserve...+ external leakage on the drivers side head. Radiator cap holds pressure. You know the drill. Car is in excellent conditon (for the most part, looks like it has 60k on it) Has a fairly new radiator and new pep boys cats. I figured headgaskets with a likely overhaul or a replacement engine. Ck'ed compression tonight and it was 200 on the drivers side cyls and 205 on the pass side. 10 cranks-Wide open throttle-sounded good. This was after a fresh radiator fill and a short drive. I was pretty floored. I have no idea if it uses oil. I need to reseal the pan and want to do the t-belt, seals, t-stat, water pump and idlers. Do you guys (n'gals) think (like me) I should plan on leaving the shorty block alone? Of coarse ck the heads and install new valve seals while they are out. I'm thinking go ahead and pull the engine and do the rear main too. No time for a leak down tonight. Car had average use untill 8/05=90k on 8/07=194k 12/08=260k. It IS the original engine. What do ya'll think...Shes just broken in and I can switch to Amsoil? Thanks-Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Correct me, I may be wrong, but I remember the '00 Subie models being 2.5 phase 1, not phase 2 motor. If so, phase 1 bad head gaskets present themselves with good compression, while bleeding exhaust gas into the cooling system to cause over heating. If the Amsoil you are considering is a synthetic, and you are using regular dino oil, IMO, I would be reluctant to switch when it is a high millage car car. That can cause oil burning, when the engine deposit are cleaned out. However, using Amsoil after a complete engine rebuild is prolly a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 High mileage Ej25s do seem to occasionally throw rods. I'd say it depends on what you are planning to use the car for. If it's for long distance travel, you might want to do a long block. If it's a commuter car and you don't want to spend a lot, it might be worth just doing HGs and taking your chances, assuming you don't drive through shady neighborhoods, live in an area with an extreme climate, etc. Don't mess with the rear main seal. They rarely fail and are difficult to install properly. If you are pulling the engine, do replace the oil separator plate unless it's the metal style. Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 2000 is a phase II. At that high a mileage, I would go for a (much) lower mileage engine. The engine may have good compression, but ... When you do the HG, you will be resurfacing the heads. this may increase compression, and add stress to the old rings. Its like giving a 90yo man a 22yo nympho girlfreind. He may enjoy it, but you just know something is going to have give. Usually what happens is the rings have a problem dealing with the new tighter heads, and you will develop blowby. BTW your compression is about 15-20psi too high, which is a bad thing. On a new engine I would expect 180-190 MAX. You have something else going on too. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 Quarter of a million miles, that's too many unknown miles to put that much work into. If it had the last 100,000 on your clock and you knew it had been treated well previously, used no oil during that time, and wasn't overheated too many times - then there may be other options. This is a Phase II motors - they always start out as external leaks and progress from there. Sounds like there has been progression -how much? CCR is a good option, by the time you put all the parts and goodies into what you're planning you might not really be saving much. Check them out, 36,000 mile and 3 year warranty, and members of this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rub2race Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 I will get a leakdown test done and try another compression test. I have a Mac gauge. Looks like the car was doing 1k a week for about 3 yrs. I should add an oil pressure test as well. Not expecting a miracle, but it would be pretty cool. What years cases, short blocks, and complete engines would be eligible for a low hassle swap? I can assemble an engine, just haven't had to do any subys yet. Thanks again-Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Yep, Nipper is correct. Say hello to blow by after that HG is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I have the same thoughts as others. IMO, you would be a lot better off swapping in a used engine with a lot fewer miles. Find a car with the 2.5 phase 2 motor that was hit anywhere, but in the front. I have always heard to find one that was hit, because more than likely, it was running at time of accident. Good luck on this project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Quarter of a million miles, that's too many unknown miles to put that much work into. If it had the last 100,000 on your clock and you knew it had been treated well previously, used no oil during that time, and wasn't overheated too many times - then there may be other options. This is a Phase II motors - they always start out as external leaks and progress from there. Sounds like there has been progression -how much? CCR is a good option, by the time you put all the parts and goodies into what you're planning you might not really be saving much. Check them out, 36,000 mile and 3 year warranty, and members of this forum. I wonder how SubiPilot finally ended up with his rebuilt engine? Happy, I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOthis Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 2000 is a phase II. When you do the HG, you will be resurfacing the heads. this may increase compression, and add stress to the old rings. Its like giving a 90yo man a 22yo nympho girlfreind. He may enjoy it, but you just know something is going to have give. nipper Im sorry I was just reading this thread...and I just LMAO ...thanks for that Nipper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hondasucks Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 We replace head gaskets all the time on cars with 150-250k miles and have no problems with other things blowing out. You are not going to mill the heads unless they are warped or pitted or otherwise require milling... You're looking at ~1500 or so to have the head gaskets replaced, and about the same and maybe more to have the engine replaced, and which a replacement junkyard engine, you may end up having to replace the head gaskets anyway, although I do agree 260k is a bit high. What I would do is try and find one that has 100-150k on it that has had the head gaskets replaced and drop that in there, but if you can't find one, I would just do the head gaskets on the engine that is in there and call it good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 We replace head gaskets all the time on cars with 150-250k miles and have no problems with other things blowing out. You are not going to mill the heads unless they are warped or pitted or otherwise require milling... . Even though normal practice recomends resurfacing the heads to get the proper sealing finish on them? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rub2race Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 What kind of finish should be on the heads? In the GM quad-4 headgasket days, the proceure was to "finish" the head with a red scotchbrite pad and a large metal "sanding block" for lack of a better term.Not a whizzer disc. Checked for flatness before and after. Not worrying about staining of the head. I'm doing all of the work.(tech for 18 yrs)Most of the way out tonight. All but the top bolts and it was time to go. Compression was the same cold as it was hot with fuel pump disabled. Hopefully will get it torn down this weekend. I will do a leakdown on the bench with a flywheel holder. Will use as a baseline and another piece of info to use on the determination. I think bore condition, and valve/guide condition will be basis on what happens next. Oil was last changed 2k ago and was about 3/4 full stick and clean. Plugs had some wear and were normal. One head was seeping oil from the top cam bearing cap and the head. Is anaerobic Loctite red jelly acceptable to uses there? Been using it for trans cases 1/2's and for adding to paper gasket applications. If I were to put in a replacement, I'd probably go with a subie shorty and rebuilt heads. Subie boneyard engines are just plain HIGH for playing the lotto. Thanks again for your advice everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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