Zefy Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I couldn't really find any comparisons between building a rig with a loyale vs. building one with a legacy. Here are some thoughts i had about each. Most of this knowledge is not first hand so i would like everybody to pitch in and fill in the gaps. this comparison is for moderate off road machines. Think about a vehicle capable of holding 28-29" tires. ~4" of lift etc etc... no t-case or solid axle swap monsters here. my first assumption is that most do not build their rigs using the legacy platform because of cost. But the cost of a legacy (at least here) is the same if not lower than an ea82 and they are far more plentiful. upsides to the ea82: -tried and tested methods by dozens of people. -d/r trans outa the box (in most cases) -better approach and departure angles than a legacy -more ground clearance in stock form -uber lightweight downsides to the ea82 -ea82 < ej22... -wheel and tire options limited -limited suspension options -most are rusted out or beaten the poop out of -potentially carbed depending on model. i hate carbs... upsides to the legacy -ej22 reliability ftw! -14 or 15" wheels outa the box -potential for suspension lift (ie. forester stuff) -better axles, higher angles achievable...? -better brakes -more comfortable, better equipped downsides to the legacy -heavy car -bigger car -not as much experience wheelin in the community -awd trans not optimal -no low range that is what i can think of. but what does that equate to when building a rig? for the legacy, a d/r trans swap would be a must along with a ~4" lift with some 28-29 lift. Removing the fatty bumpers and making some tube ones to better the approach and departure angles. A LSD rear or welded and some forester struts and springs for that little extra height. Building a similar vehicle with a loyale i think would end up costing more and it would have the same capabilities off-road. discuss! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mthoodsub Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I dont have experience with the loyale, but I couldnt be happier with my legacy. Go with 96-98 Legacy Outback struts and Forester Springs. The outback struts IIRC give more room for a bigger tire. I first had Forester struts and when i switched to Leg OB struts i was surprised to see how much difference there was. Ive got 27" grabbers now and i could probably go up to a 29" with some beating and wheel spacers or different offset rims. I used King Springs for a Forester with my Leg OB struts, I gained close to 3 inches. I have a D/R in the works. I did some bumper trimming, i really want a simple tube bumper. Yes the legacy is bigger and heavier but its what ive been used to, they are still pretty light. One person is all you need to rock it enough to get unstuck in some situations. But i hardly ever have somebody with me and i get myself out. More power means you can carry more recovery gear?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoobieDoo Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I don't have experience with the legacy, but I couldn't be happier with my GL/Loyale. The tranny is prob the biggest issue. The d/r is far superior off road, but if you're able to put one in a lego, that would rock! Likewise, a lack of power is prob the biggest issue with the loyale, but the EJ swaps are pretty common. After using my EA82 as a daily driver for some time now, I'm not gonna put in an EJ. We have 70mph zones in this area, and I'm still able to pass (most) semi's. Plus off road the power is even less important, with low range. If you're into real steep hill climbs, or tires bigger than 27's...EJ it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiffy Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 if you have a legacy with an auto that you can lock the center diff with then that would probably be better than the ea82 d/r for crawling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamnk Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 here in europe all 4x4 and awd legacy has low range and they came woth full time all whell drive and push button for weeling we just put 2" blocks betven the struts and chasy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoobieDoo Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 here in europe all 4x4 and awd legacy has low range and they came woth full time all whell drive and push button for weeling we just put 2" blocks betven the struts and chasy What the hell!?! It's not like we couldn't have used that, here in the states! Wanna ship me a tranny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 What the hell!?! It's not like we couldn't have used that, here in the states! Wanna ship me a tranny? It's been done I think the general consensus is that it is not worth the cost of doing it. Somebody on here has made one that has a better low range than the euro spec cars for way less money. Basically what I am looking for is a dedicated off road machine. I ready have a lifted impreza via forester but I find it rather limiting. Partly due to the cosmetics of the car but mostly due to the daily driver factor. I find the awd very limiting when wheeling (great in every other situation) but it needs true 4wd with a welded rear and no auto. My friend and I have built an 87 toyota pickup and I want to be able to roll with him. Common sense tells me to build a toy but I don't want to be 8g's in debt to do it. So hence my pondering. Loyale or legacy? I've already done one ej swap and I would rather not do it again. A trans swap is waaaaay easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Basically what I am looking for is a dedicated off road machine. My friend and I have built an 87 toyota pickup and I want to be able to roll with him. . I have wheeled both the Ea82 with dual range and the Legacy sedan , would take the Ea82 over the legacey anyday, reasons EA82 true 4x4 tranny seperates front and rear wheels lighter Legacy 1 wheel spins and your stuck heavier front lower A arm weak will bend if you want a legacy buy my sedan its already lifted 4" if you want a wheeler lock the rear diff lighten the car go 26" tires or put a EJ in it if you want to wheel with the toyota , get a toyota or small import pickup or suzuki ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I have wheeled both the Ea82 with dual range and the Legacy sedan , would take the Ea82 over the legacey anyday, reasons EA82 true 4x4 tranny seperates front and rear wheels lighter Legacy 1 wheel spins and your stuck heavier front lower A arm weak will bend if you want a legacy buy my sedan its already lifted 4" if you want a wheeler lock the rear diff lighten the car go 30" tires or put a EA81in it if you want to wheel with the toyota , get a toyota or small import pickup or suzuki ... Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamnk Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 1 wheel spins and your stuck well if you have 4x4 at least two wheels mast spin but with awd it is posible that onli one wheel will spin becaus is computer controled but if you pul handbrake all wheels vil stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamnk Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 vil stop will stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one eye Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Not that I'm trying to call Scotts car out or anything, you can see in this vid that the legacy has the power and all to do what Scott wanted it to do, but the second that a tire comes off the gound it revs big time, It did make it all the way so, yes it will work but it is a heck of a work out on the rig..................... Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Not that I'm trying to call Scotts car out or anything, you can see in this vid that the legacy has the power and all to do what Scott wanted it to do, but the second that a tire comes off the gound it revs big time, It did make it all the way so, yes it will work but it is a heck of a work out on the rig..................... Jeff He's got a Part Time Dual Range in it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted July 11, 2009 Author Share Posted July 11, 2009 thanks scott for your take. You are one of the few people on here that has built both. now i know the slipping issue with the awd is a concern. that is why i would be swapping in a d/r out of an ea82 with either lsd or locked rear. the control arms (that's what you're talking about right?) are weak but can be strengthened. I've done it a couple times for rally cars. also it is easy to swap in the aluminium sti ones which are wicked strong for fairly cheap. the only real downside i can see to the legacy is the weight. as much as i want to pick up your legacy it would be to hard to bring across the boarder and get proper registration and licensing for it. I've done it once and it took about a year to fully complete. it's virtually impossible with a modified vehicle. i might be interested in the lift/parts off it though. I also want a wagon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 thanks scott for your take. You are one of the few people on here that has built both. now i know the slipping issue with the awd is a concern. that is why i would be swapping in a d/r out of an ea82 with either lsd or locked rear. the control arms (that's what you're talking about right?) are weak but can be strengthened. I've done it a couple times for rally cars. also it is easy to swap in the aluminium sti ones which are wicked strong for fairly cheap. the only real downside i can see to the legacy is the weight. as much as i want to pick up your legacy it would be to hard to bring across the boarder and get proper registration and licensing for it. I've done it once and it took about a year to fully complete. it's virtually impossible with a modified vehicle. i might be interested in the lift/parts off it though. I also want a wagon... if you do the D/R swap and LSD or lock the rear and strengthen then arms you will have a real nice all around car, I prefer the legacy Gen1 over the ea82 for a all around road/ rally car, the weight will really only be a factor on steep gnarly trails , if you dont mind all the work , and that Toyota could always give you a yank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 you think it is more work to build a legacy vs. a loyale? Lift kit complexity is virtually identical and beating the wheel wells for more room is the same across the board. And i think i would rather swap a transmission vs swap an engine. and i have done both but not on these cars so i am speaking from experience... just not enough experience. the other big point that i'm quickly realizing by trying to find a car is the legacy is WAY cheaper than a loyale... Don't know why... For instance, legacy fs, fully loaded, auto with 190k km on the clock going for 900. the guy sounded like a scab but w/e... loyale posted yesterday with 200k+ km on the clock for sale for 3k!!! didn't talk to this person as they were obviously off their rocker... REDICULOUS!!! Scott, would you be interested in making me a lift kit or selling the one you have for the legacy? I also hear it has a d/r in it now? Interested in selling the kit for that? Once again, i can't buy the car because it is a *************** to get into canada. But pm me some prices and maybe we can work something out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 you think it is more work to build a legacy vs. a loyale? Lift kit complexity is virtually identical and beating the wheel wells for more room is the same across the board. And i think i would rather swap a transmission vs swap an engine. and i have done both but not on these cars so i am speaking from experience... just not enough experience. the other big point that i'm quickly realizing by trying to find a car is the legacy is WAY cheaper than a loyale... Don't know why... For instance, legacy fs, fully loaded, auto with 190k km on the clock going for 900. the guy sounded like a scab but w/e... loyale posted yesterday with 200k+ km on the clock for sale for 3k!!! didn't talk to this person as they were obviously off their rocker... REDICULOUS!!! Scott, would you be interested in making me a lift kit or selling the one you have for the legacy? I also hear it has a d/r in it now? Interested in selling the kit for that? Once again, i can't buy the car because it is a *************** to get into canada. But pm me some prices and maybe we can work something out. it has no D/R in it thats a rumor. if your in no hurry I could do the EJ lift as its something Ive discontinued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subafreak Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 How the heck are the Legacy control arms weak? I havent bent any of mine yet and that thing gets wheeled hard!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 it has no D/R in it thats a rumor. if your in no hurry I could do the EJ lift as its something Ive discontinued Sorry, i could have sworn that you had put one in there. So I guess I might still have the only Legacy with a D/R in it. (it's actually my brothers, but whatever) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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