Roamer Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 So the drama continues on my 96 legacy wagon. 6 months ago the head gaskets went so my mechanic replaced them. Fast forward last week my car suddenly died on me and would not restart, I had it towed to my mechanic and he tells me that the timing belt went, I asked him how could the timing belt go if you replaced it 6 months ago at the time you did the heads, he said that the pulley that holds the timing belt froze up. So my question is, is the explanation that the pulley that holds the timing belt froze up a valid mechanical excuse? What else could cause a 6 month old timing belt to snap? I am about to junk the car but am curious if my mechanic is taking advantage of me due to the fact that he never changed the timing belt when he did the heads or installed it improperly. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Hard to tell without seeing the car. But Idlers DO fail. That's why I always repalce them. The WP can freeze, or worse yet camshafts can freeze up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 He just did an incomplete job, possibly on purpose. He may have replaced the belt, or he may not have. Doesn't matter either way. If you have one of these engines apart for head work, you replace the water pump, timing belt, and all of the idler pulleys. That way you don't have to do it all over again in 10k miles when one of the pulleys locks up. More than likely, he knew this and is just trying to get more money out of you, in which case, you take it to another shop. On the flip side, maybe he didn't know this, in which case, he doesn't know what he's doing, so you should still take the car to another shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 He just did an incomplete job, possibly on purpose. He may have replaced the belt, or he may not have. Doesn't matter either way. If you have one of these engines apart for head work, you replace the water pump, timing belt, and all of the idler pulleys. That way you don't have to do it all over again in 10k miles when one of the pulleys locks up. More than likely, he knew this and is just trying to get more money out of you, in which case, you take it to another shop. On the flip side, maybe he didn't know this, in which case, he doesn't know what he's doing, so you should still take the car to another shop. What he said. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamer Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 So does anyone in the market for a 96 Soobie:) The tires are brand new.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 MIght be just one of the "too many mechanics got used to the old ej22 engine that was non-interference" and did not know the newer ej22 is interference. I would try a new mechanic if he is giving you the runaround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 [...]Fast forward last week my car suddenly died on me and would not restart, I had it towed to my mechanic and he tells me that the timing belt went, [...] Who would have guessed? See post #3 of http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=102756 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Queens (I assume New York). I spent most of 2 years commuting weekly to the LaGuardia Marriott in Flushing Queens and working at the BQE and 30th ave. Dirving my car there was enough (parking bites). Mostly I took a limo - had to when I flew. Almost be a fun challange to bring in a car trailer to pick it up - but not really. Don't know what a broken SUby goes for there. I pay 200-1k for them here- depending mostly on the body since I redo the engines of 2.2 them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamer Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Who would have guessed? See post #3 of http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=102756 That is why I have been coming here since I could drive, because of wizards like yourself:). My family has always driven soobies, unfortunately I think that during the 90's Subaru slacked off on building quality vehicles as it had in the past but notwithstanding that they were still much more reliable than your average car on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamer Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Queens (I assume New York). I spent most of 2 years commuting weekly to the LaGuardia Marriott in Flushing Queens and working at the BQE and 30th ave. Dirving my car there was enough (parking bites). Mostly I took a limo - had to when I flew. Almost be a fun challange to bring in a car trailer to pick it up - but not really. Don't know what a broken SUby goes for there. I pay 200-1k for them here- depending mostly on the body since I redo the engines of 2.2 them. Yeah parking is fun around here, especially when it snows. As for what a broken legacy wagon goes for around here is beyond me but I know that the tires on them have less than 4k miles and cost me close to 500 buxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 MIght be just one of the ''too many mechanics got used to the old ej22 engine that was non-interference'' and did not know the newer ej22 is interference. A broken timing belt on a 1996 2.2 would not have been a big issue, because it wasn't until '97 that the 2.2 was changed to an interference design. However, I believe the car in question is an LSi, which came standard with the DOHC 2.5. That explains the previous need for HGs and why a broken timing belt is, ummm, ''unfortunate''. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 That is why I have been coming here since I could drive, because of wizards like yourself:). [...] Thanks for the compliment, although I make no claims to such powers . However, one doesn't have to be a ''wizard'' to understand that when a timing belt breaks, the camshafts stop turning --the ECU no longer receives pulses from the cam sensor, thus setting a code for that sensor. That sequence of events isn't unique to Subarus. As to whether the mechanic is culpable, I can only repeat what others have said concerning parts that should usually be replaced along with the timing belt, especially on a high-mileage inteference-design engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Any particular reason why your giving up on this car? This was the mechanics fault, sadly, not the cars. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamer Posted August 28, 2009 Author Share Posted August 28, 2009 Any particular reason why your giving up on this car? This was the mechanics fault, sadly, not the cars. nipper Well it's basically cutting my loses and walking away, I mean at the end of the day I can force my mechanic to fix the car and if he refuses then I have no choice but to sue him (fyi I am an attorney), but it's not worth the time and effort to recoup the $$$ or time off work to go to court. He can say well the pulleys were working fine and there was no need to replace them at the time and I can argue it is common practice to replace them together with the timing belt and that as a mechanic he should have known better and the judge who most likely will have no concept of reality will say well the law provides that a mechanic is under no duty to install parts on a vehicle that are in working order case dismissed, next case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Well it's basically cutting my loses and walking away, I mean at the end of the day I can force my mechanic to fix the car and if he refuses then I have no choice but to sue him (fyi I am an attorney), but it's not worth the time and effort to recoup the $$$ or time off work to go to court. He can say well the pulleys were working fine and there was no need to replace them at the time and I can argue it is common practice to replace them together with the timing belt and that as a mechanic he should have known better and the judge who most likely will have no concept of reality will say well the law provides that a mechanic is under no duty to install parts on a vehicle that are in working order case dismissed, next case. Except in an endwrench article on timing belts it says that all the parts should be replaced together. But I mean why not fix the car? It takes time and money to buy another car. Not to mention you know your car's history. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) Mind if I chuckle a little about a lawyer allegedly(sp?) getting screwed..... o.k. - I feel better now - its the highlight of my young evenigng so far. I'm a bad person! Yea - you're pretty stuck. I know a few lawyers (who don't live in a big city) and they are all incapable of doing anything mechanical themselves - even if they had the place, tools, etc. Nice folks. But if they weren't lawyers they's be living in a box on the sidewalk somewhere. You're really at the mercy of others. Sucks. If it's a 2.5 it's a goner if you can't do it yourself and not worth buying a JY engine and paying someone else to do the Head Gaskets, timings belt (and all components) and install it. I'd 2.2 it or nothing personally. Or cut my loses as you're talking of. FYI I have pruchased 2 OBW's with less than 120k where the Dealer did the Timing Belt only around 100k and shortly thereafter something else failed (Idler) causing the same exact outcome as yours. Whether they were offered all new components are went the cheap route and shot themselves in the foot I don't know. Still sucks no matter who you are. Don't mean to beat up on the lawyer. Edit/add: Find a Subaru Guru someplace and have it towed there. Jersey, upstate NY, wherever. You'll probably more than pay for the towing in labor savings and finding someone who knows Suby's. If the whole family drives them I'm surprised you don't already have an asset like that lined up. This is along the lines of Nipper's thoughts I believe. It's where you live that's compounding the situation - so get the car outta there. Edited August 28, 2009 by davebugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgambino Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 now my turn to add the the "lawyer" thing... After paying two crooked lawyers (make it 3 if you count the $7500 I had to pay my ex's lawyer) so much money....I would rather be a lawyer and bill out $250-$400 per hour...and have no clue how to turn a wrench Did we determine whether this is really a 2.2 or actually a 2.5? Roamer...if you are serious about getting rid of it, PM me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I've been assuming its a 2.2, if it is its a quick fix, hence why i am against dumping the car. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamer Posted August 29, 2009 Author Share Posted August 29, 2009 Wow you guys sure do hate lawyers:) which is why I never ever tell anyone I am one outside of my firm!! As for my car, I was at my mechanic today and he said the belt did not snap but instead came lose from a frozen pulley, so he said he will replace the belt and pulley and see what happens, he does not believe the valves got bent (its a 2.5). I told him to go ahead and do the job on the condition that if the valves are bent I ain't paying him for it, so in good faith he agreed. Maybe this is what I get for choosing not to drive a typical big city lawyer car, but as a practical matter I always thought a Subaru was the best bang for the buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Hope you get off cheap and easy. All folks dislike Lawyers. But you knew that going in. I've got lots of Lawyer jokes - some you might even like. Lawyer: "One who's main purpose in life it to protect folks from others in his same profession" Or something like that. Not a joke - but accurate. The only quote from Shakespeare(I believe) that I can remember (because it made sense) is about lawyers. I've never really seen a belt "come loose" due to a pulley. I've seen them strip off the rubber lugs, break, shred, or melt, but never come off. But I hope the car turns out well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Now Now, my lawyer did very well by me with my own insurance company when the lost income adjuster dragged her feet for 3 months. He said its the first time he ever had to fight a clients insurance company because of a lazy employee, as he is used to fighting the other side. He said the other side was easy. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcbpe Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 I've never really seen a belt "come loose" due to a pulley. I've seen them strip off the rubber lugs, break, shred, or melt, but never come off. The belt on my 2000 did just that. Started the car one morning to go to work and it made such a horrible noise I shut down and drove a different car. Once I finally got the front of the motor off I noted the belt was fine...but the bearings on the idler gear had exploded all over the place and the gear had fallen off. which brought me to this wonderful forum looking for advice. roamer...don't give up on the car, and good luck. I've put 5500 on mine since doing the belt on my own and it runs great. Actually, it runs better...I'm getting almost 3 MPG more. I hope you have as much luck as me and find that that nothing actually bent in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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