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Chain reduction Hub


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32 replies to this topic

#1 Uberoo

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 12:21 AM

Im drawing up a 2:1 chain reduction hub to go on each corner of a subaru suspension.

A quick gearing calculation with the 2:1 hub plus subaru stuff gives a 27.65 ratio in 1st HI,and a 44.02 ratio in 1st low.

with 33" tires

it would go 1.67 MPH at idle in 1st LO
3 MPH in 1st HI at idle
and
65 MPH at 4000 RPM in 5th HI

The gear reduction box would use #60 chain.The top sprocket would be 9 teeth and the bottom would be 18. The box would be roughly 9" tall and 1 1/2" wide.The top sprocket would attach some how to the axle.The bottom sprocket would transmit the power to the subaru hubs.

At stock ride height (no suspension lift) with the reduction box in place and 33" tires it would give a theoretical ground clearance of 33.5".

Then because the reduction box would be after the axles, the axles would be stressed just as much as normal.

I'm kinda Hung up on if the chain will be strong enough.I plan to use #60 chain.The chain is 1/2 wide(the area that the sprocket contacts).

Im just kinda wondering if it will hold up to 33" tires and an EA81.If it will there are several companies in lewiston that sell gears.So it probably wouldn't be too hard to rig up a prototype..

to make it work I would need the splined section from a subaru hub for the axle to go into,and then a outer CV cup to go into the vehicle hub.
It doesnt seem like it would be hard to make: some chain,two gears,method of connecting unit to car,metal for the housing..

I wonder if an EA81 would even have enough snot to turn 33" tires in 1st gear+ 2:1 reduction..:rolleyes: at least enough to get started in town..

Edited by Uberoo, 18 January 2010 - 12:31 AM.


#2 monstaru

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 01:35 AM

quit theorizing and start building.......it is the only thing that you can gain experience from..."but , but , but i wanna build it right the first time"
get over it....just build something!start small, model size.use some things like ten speed bikes as resources.....come on.you wanna do some math, do that math.....

Edited by monstaru, 18 January 2010 - 02:00 AM.


#3 Uberoo

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 01:42 AM

I wonder if any of the shops around town will be open tomorrow might be able to look at the various pieces and see if they would be strong enough..that and start tabulating costs...

#4 NinjaTech

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 02:19 AM

just build one of these if you're going to use chains on something. :banana:



also, an idea from the video. try adapting hubs from from a HMMWV. good luck.

#5 Uberoo

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 03:15 AM

Hummer hubs are way to expensive.besides from looking online all the pieces needed to do this would run about 200 or so.

plus hummer hubs spin backwards so I would have 5 reverse gears and one forward gear.

Edited by Uberoo, 18 January 2010 - 03:40 AM.


#6 bigo1966

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 06:19 AM

Just put an motorcycle engine under the hood. Much easier.

#7 Uberoo

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 12:45 PM

Then it won't be a subaru anymore.I believe that to be a subaru- the engine and most of the drive train must be subaru of some year. Otherwise I could put a subaru on a 4x4 chevy frame and running gear.All it is then is a chevy pickup with a subaru body kit.At the very least though it must have a subaru engine.

BTW have you got that clutch hooked up on the sedamn?

#8 one eye

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 12:50 PM

Seems to be just one of those worthless threads again............ Wheel it the way it is, it's fine the way it is, there are rigs out there that have decent gears in them stock, you might want to try that.....

Jeff

#9 NinjaTech

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 02:38 PM

you can get portal hubs made. Any way you go about this it's going to be expensive. Especially since I doubt that you have a machine shop at your disposal.

I'm with oneeye, this thread is pretty worthless. Nothing is going to come out of it.

#10 chazmataz

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 09:20 PM

its seems like almost all of his threads are pretty much worthless.

he does more thread starting and posting then actually getting any wheeling experience with his subaru the way it is.

i'm with the other 2, just get out and wheel it, have fun and start threads with pictures of you wheeling it or of it dirty.

i've been wheeling mine for about 6 or 7 years and it does just fine the way it is.

#11 Uberoo

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 09:38 PM

i checked with some of the shops around town.#50 chain should work.However, it wouldn't be advisable to romp on it in 2wd at low speeds on solid ground.

Found that it would be better to go with a 10/20 tooth combo rather than a 9/18 combo because the 10 tooth sprocket will have more teeth in the chain at any one time.Witch would increase the load carrying capacity.

Why exactly would I need a machine shop to get the chain to work right?Chain by its very nature can absorb the mounting points not being super precise.Other than just having the chain inline with each other is all thats really needed anyway.Besides the tensioner can take up alot of imperfections.We are talking tape measure close not micrometer close.

I'm gonna try to get this to work,but have patience.Im working on a less than college budget of $150 a month,most of that goes to gas. I don't have a shop.I work on cars out on the asphalt or dirt.I don't even have a welder.The only metal working tools I have are a cheapo grinder and a hammer.I dunno I am blessed with or cursed with lots of ideas but no money right now to act them out.

rather than simply putting down my ideas because it seems like they never get anywhere maybe you should instead offer suggestions on how to do that idea most effectively with my limited budget.

to get an idea of how poor/broke I am, a car worth $2000 is like a bently compared to what I can drive/afford.

so all the people who seem to think that my posts lead to nothing why not try putting yourself in my shoes.Lots of ideas,no shop,no money.

finally for people suggesting that I should just get a more capable rig.Show me a vehicle that gets decent MPG(17 or better) while out tooling around in the woods,has IFS/IRS front and rear,and is 4wd then we will talk.

#12 The Beast I Drive

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 09:54 PM

Ok, let me lay this out. You need AT THE VERY LEAST a welder to make any kind of reduction setup at home. Even with just that, you would still need a machine shop with a lathe and a mill to turn parts and make precise holes/splines to attach the hubs to the driven shafts at the top and bottom of the boxes. If you dont have a welder or a lathe or a drill press, or money to pay someone to do that work, then you will not be able to make this happen.

I make stuff like this every day where I work, I have been fortunate enough that my dad has been doing things like this for the better part of 60 years, so I have everything I need to make these. There's a lot more to it than I think youve considered, like bearing races that need to be precision machined into the cases, custom axles for the lower sprocket that will need a custom machined hub to to fit them, how they will attach to/replace the stock Subaru knuckle, how the Subaru axle will attach and drive the top sprocket, how you will change the chain if it breaks, etc.

Im gonna have to agree with everyone else, just wheel the car you have with what you have. You have everything you need to have fun with it, 2" lift, 235 75 15 tires, EA81, and now a 5 speed D/R. Mine has 31" tires and an EA81 and a 5 speed all in a bigger, heavier Gen 3 body, and I have a blast with it and I learn when to use the gas and when not to, and how to pick a good line. Just wheel what you got until you have the means or the money to build what you dream of.

As for something more capable and affordable, you can pick up a used early 80's Toyota or Nissan for under 1000 almost anywhere. Those come stock with solid rear axles, solid fronts on the Yotas, clearance for 31's with no lift, and 3X the flex that a modified Subaru will ever have. We dont wheel Subarus cuz they are teh Bezt 4wd eva made, we wheel them cuz its fun, its challenging, and they are unique. Those of us who got bored wheeling them after pushing them to the extreme limits moved on to Toyotas.

-Bill

#13 Uberoo

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 10:04 PM

I was thinking of using alot of old subaru parts to make it happen.I was thinking the splined section of a subaru hub for the top sprocket to attach to the axle,and then an outer CV cup/stub shaft from the lower sprocket to the hub of the vehicle.I know it would never last as long as any part from the factory but it would probably last longer than the EA81 body I have.

#14 daredevil1166

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 10:42 PM

rather than simply putting down my ideas because it seems like they never get anywhere maybe you should instead offer suggestions on how to do that idea most effectively with my limited budget.


I agree. It seems he has a history of crazy ideas that never lead anywhere, but geez, let a guy try, and maybe give a little constructive advice.

Even if it never happens, who cares. Why not think and dream.

Now, I'm off to put snowmobile tracks on my Outback. ;)

Edited by daredevil1166, 18 January 2010 - 10:46 PM.


#15 eulogious

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 03:25 AM

It's kinda funny, everyone knocks this guy for having ideas. There is nothing wrong with having ideas and writing them out. A forum is a great place to do that. You can get it all out of your head an onto paper, and then ask people what they think.

Also with that being said, anyone can say what they want about the idea he has, but don't rag on him for creating posts/ideas. You can say the idea is stupid all you want, everyone has their opinion and a right to that opinion, but it's a little over the top to be treating this guy like a tool just because he likes to write his ideas down and then get opinions on them. Put the idea down, not the individual creating the idea. That's the great thing about a forum and the internet, anyone can access it, and anyone can add to it. Let's not trash anyone for creating ideas, just trash the idea ;) Another great thing about the internet, you can ignore ANYONE you want to. It's easy, just don't read their posts. I think there is even a "blocking" feature for this site so you can "block" threads and reply's from certain people. You don't like uberoo's ideas and find him annoying and his threads stupid, block him, or better yet, just don't read his posts! Remember, I am sure that someone back in the day thought Thomas Edison's ideas where stupid! Not comparing uberoo to Thomas Edison or anything (no offense uberoo), I am just saying that some ideas may seem stupid at the time, but can change the way the world works in the future, one just never knows! Now that my rant is out of the way...

Now I will also say that I don't think that this particular idea is that great of an idea. There just seems to be to many points of failure for this to be reliable in any way, which would make me not want to even attempt this. Also not to mention any debris that might get caught in the chain, since you would be offroading. The last time I checked, there are lost of things that would just LOVE to jam up a chain like trees, brush, dirt, mud, water, clay, you name it. Granted you could add a chain guard of some sort, but that wouldn't protect the chain from being smashed up against a tree. But that's just my opinion :)

Edited by eulogious, 21 January 2010 - 03:34 AM.


#16 monstaru

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 12:30 PM

When you guys are here for a bunch of years and get tired of the same wasted space , by the same person, that by HIS description cannot even carry out due to lack of funds, tools, and the ideas in his head.............you would get tired of it too.....

defend what you know.and you don't know this sitch.....

Uberoo, since you don't have the money to do it properly.don't . it will be unsafe and stupid to try to accomplish without a roll of cash in your pocket.great idea, like none of us have had it!we have, and we weighed the cost, time and such.and still have not gotten around to it.this is not your original idea.
you are and have been in over your head for quite some time .....ideas are great, but wasted space and annoyance of other members is getting old.just my .02 cents.

you wanna know why we do not leave you alone uberoo.because we like action,and you have none.it gets annoying!

#17 strat

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 01:04 PM

there is a 60H chain which is a heavier version of 60riv chain. your weakest link is the connecting link. also, how are you lubricating the chain?

I work at an industrial supply company. :)

#18 grossgary

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 01:50 PM

buying unnecessary parts and impractical projects like this are a horrible financial move for someone with a limited budget. there's a cause-and-effect here. living month to month is tough...living month to month and coming up with projects like this is a recipe for stress..now, or later.
make some financial goals and decisions and you'll be in a better place later to do what you want. might be hard, might seem impossible, might take a couple years. but you'll show your true colors, if you can really be creative and come up with good ideas - and if you can really hack it by doing that.

and then...you'll find yourself in a position that you can basically do whatever you want. most people can't do that, but it's not hard and i highly recommend it for all your future Subaruing ideas.

#19 Uberoo

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 02:40 PM

Now I will also say that I don't think that this particular idea is that great of an idea. There just seems to be to many points of failure for this to be reliable in any way, which would make me not want to even attempt this. Also not to mention any debris that might get caught in the chain, since you would be offroading. The last time I checked, there are lost of things that would just LOVE to jam up a chain like trees, brush, dirt, mud, water, clay, you name it. Granted you could add a chain guard of some sort, but that wouldn't protect the chain from being smashed up against a tree. But that's just my opinion :)


I started thinking the same thing when I started figuring the math out.#50 chain is good for 6100 LBs tensile strength.On the surface it looked good until you factor in the torque multiplication from the transmission,the drag rolling down the road,tire inertia,etc.Ended up figuring out that just starting out in 2wd leaves about 1000 lbs of tensile strength left.Go up any hill or introduce any shock loading-like wheel hop and you would easily shatter the chain.After looking at that I realized even 60 chain would be too fragile.So if I was to do it,I would use gears.However,I lack the money and the shop to make this work and be safe,for now.So I will focus on cheaper proven ideas for right now.Atleast until I have more money to spend.

#20 one eye

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 09:53 PM

A 5 speed D/R and an EA81 are all you need, stay off the skinny pedal and its perfect, you wont break axles burn clutches or anything, My Wheeler has been perfect and I have no chain Reduction hubs or any thing special.
Try Wheeling it on some trails and stay out of the watery mud lakes. this is a crazy idea, If monstaru wont try it, it shouldnt be done, Listen to him if anything, he is a very good voice of reason, just read what he wrote two times and you'll get the Idea that, no you shouldnt do this, or even bother with it. The worst part is you keep going about your thread like a bad singer on American Idol, You just keep singing right over the judges......... Stop and read what some of the People who understand how Subaru's function, They have good insite on this, And that is Money Welders, Time, Knowledge and dont do it. I'm not puting you down but this is tread 603 of Crazy Idea time from you.....



Jeff

#21 Uberoo

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 10:40 PM

thanks jeff.Did you not read my previous post?I, myself actually put my idea down and called a stop to it after I did some research.I found out that it wouldn't durable enough or safe enough.I did say that I might try something like that latter when I have the money and the skills to do it right ,but because you don't read my posts you musta missed that..

#22 monstaru

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 10:42 PM

its more a matter of i have tried doing a lot with nothing.....and although my ************ didna really break ....it was probably not wise to ride some of it:lol:......
i have good stores in town that give me good prices.and i guarantee you it never is as simple as the prices you CAn get parts for....that is under optimal condition it is what you have to end up ordereing, where it is coming from, etcc.....

then the time, and knowledge..i am just sayin.he doe snot have the knowledge to carry this out.and shouldn't because of his ignorance.it will be a waste of time,and most importantly ....money.


i am not saying i know anything,but the people that know me and have seen what i do around my place know that i have tried doing alot of different setups for things.have built alot of thinga that just won't work, etc....and i have rednecked the ************ out of some things too.things that did not break, and worked fine....but

it's not just about the math.it is about the total engineering package.i believe this is completely possible.i have been thinking about it for years, and i might even get around to it....but , by then , i will have even more of a killer tool cache....and more duckets to fund it.....to DO IT RIGHT......

cheers, brian

#23 one eye

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 11:01 PM

thanks jeff.Did you not read my previous post?I, myself actually put my idea down and called a stop to it after I did some research.I found out that it wouldn't durable enough or safe enough.I did say that I might try something like that latter when I have the money and the skills to do it right ,but because you don't read my posts you musta missed that..



I read half of it, I saw that you where going on and on, that was where I started typing....................... Either way this was once again another thread that ends just like this..............
Jeff

#24 DR DLEX

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 03:03 PM

I feel your pain Uberoo. Every time I visit the L/C area I dream of wheeling straight up those hills,too.Wheeling between trees,roots,rocks and washouts may be fun for some,but wagontrailing and freewheeling has its merits too.The idea would be what it would be a hiil climber.I would agree a pricey project.

#25 frogstar7055

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 11:29 PM

I believe this is completely possible.i have been thinking about it for years, and i might even get around to it....but , by then , i will have even more of a killer tool cache....and more duckets to fund it.....to DO IT RIGHT......

cheers, brian


I'm a professional Machinist/amateur engineer and have also given a lot of thought to this exact same idea.
Doable? Yes it is but I figure other than the cool factor of having done it it really wouldn't net you any better gain in off road ability than a lot of much easier to accomplish mods.

(I'd use a multi-row chain like in the primary of a Harley)




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