Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

ea82t heads


  • Please log in to reply
39 replies to this topic

#1 1blwngtp

1blwngtp

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 30 posts
  • bayside

Posted 15 August 2012 - 04:55 PM

hey all i have a 90 subaru loyale turbo wagon, i had the car up for sale but now im throwing around the idea of just fixing it. it blew a head gasket but not sure if the head went as well. where can i get some good heads from? the car has 65k on it.

#2 Petersubaru

Petersubaru

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,088 posts
  • Sarnia Canada

Posted 15 August 2012 - 06:21 PM

take them to a machine shop and have them clean it up for you..I hope you have experience putting these on..

#3 1blwngtp

1blwngtp

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 30 posts
  • bayside

Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:19 PM

Never done heads or head gaskets on this car before, any tricks or stuff I need to look for?

#4 1blwngtp

1blwngtp

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 30 posts
  • bayside

Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:30 AM

Edit* Just might be the turbo that went and not the heads/head gasket. I will be looking it over, where can I find a turbo for this car

#5 Petersubaru

Petersubaru

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,088 posts
  • Sarnia Canada

Posted 17 August 2012 - 08:37 AM

I doubt if the turbo is gone with only 65K..and proper diagnoses by an experienced person is needed here..

#6 ivans imports

ivans imports

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 2,950 posts
  • lumby bc canada

Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:10 AM

Have heads checked for cracks in exhaust ports as was commen problem

#7 1blwngtp

1blwngtp

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 30 posts
  • bayside

Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:02 PM

I'm going to do a compression test this weekend and go from there.

#8 scoobiedubie

scoobiedubie

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 468 posts
  • Aloha, Oregon

Posted 19 August 2012 - 10:42 PM

If you are going to do it right, you put on Gen 3 heads because what the car came with are most likely garbage. Here is an extra pair that I have for sale.
http://portland.crai...3216769406.html

There are several little tricks to getting it together right, like getting gasket sealant in the right place on two interior surfaces, and getting those special subaru O-rings to stay put prior to setting the cylinder head. Also, clean all oil off of your cylinder head washers, bolts and threads, so that they do not loosen up so fast. Later, the trick is getting the rocker arms to stay in place when you place the camshaft assembly.

#9 Brat78

Brat78

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 121 posts
  • Richmond Hill, GA

Posted 21 August 2012 - 08:17 PM

If you are going to do it right, you put on Gen 3 heads because what the car came with are most likely garbage. Here is an extra pair that I have for sale.
http://portland.crai...3216769406.html

There are several little tricks to getting it together right, like getting gasket sealant in the right place on two interior surfaces, and getting those special subaru O-rings to stay put prior to setting the cylinder head. Also, clean all oil off of your cylinder head washers, bolts and threads, so that they do not loosen up so fast. Later, the trick is getting the rocker arms to stay in place when you place the camshaft assembly.

How is any coolant loss at all via a crack in the head not a problem?

#10 mikaleda

mikaleda

    1000+ member!

  • Members
  • 1,329 posts
  • priest lake, Idaho

Posted 21 August 2012 - 10:54 PM

if you have the heads sent in to be resurfaced have them magnafluxed (please pardon my spelling) that will show if they are cracked or not.
also have any head you buy from anywhere magnafluxed just to be sure (better safe than have to do your head gaskets again)
.

Edited by mikaleda, 21 August 2012 - 10:58 PM.


#11 scoobiedubie

scoobiedubie

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 468 posts
  • Aloha, Oregon

Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:14 PM

Aluminum isn't magnetic. Magnafluxing is magnetic particle inspection. Gen 3 heads don't have the horrific crack problems as the cylinder heads that the GL-10 came with.

#12 coxy

coxy

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 232 posts
  • Sydney Australia

Posted 25 August 2012 - 07:40 PM

I sometimes wonder about all the negative aspects of EA82 motors as so many obviously did many miles OK when newer,Yes they are not bulletproof but I think many of the issues were probably caused by being used as cheap hacks without correct maintenance in the past.

There are known issues and many of those issues are the result of other problems like poor cooling system maintenance,If you approach them with an open mind I am sure they can be OK but not necessarily cheap to bring up to spec with Gen 3 heads etc.
That is the problem in many cases are they worth spending the money if they are to you then take no shortcuts and spend wisely the information is available.

#13 mikaleda

mikaleda

    1000+ member!

  • Members
  • 1,329 posts
  • priest lake, Idaho

Posted 25 August 2012 - 08:07 PM

Aluminum isn't magnetic. Magnafluxing is magnetic particle inspection. Gen 3 heads don't have the horrific crack problems as the cylinder heads that the GL-10 came with.

i didn't know that i have never messed with aluminum heads before, thanks for the info.

#14 GRANDLOYALE

GRANDLOYALE

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts
  • Portland OR.

Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:36 AM

Aluminum isn't magnetic. Magnafluxing is magnetic particle inspection. Gen 3 heads don't have the horrific crack problems as the cylinder heads that the GL-10 came with.

Scoobiedubie, I've been combing this forum for info on this very topic.

 

Can you describe what a Gen 3 head is, or what motor they are found on.  I'm not familiar with the different generation motors.

 

Thank 



#15 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:59 AM

"Gen 3 head", as used on this forum, refers simply to a casting mark on the head. 

 

To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever identified any substantive difference in this casting versus 2 other casting-marked "versions" that preceded it. 

 

My PERSONAL theory is that the only reason they are thought to have less chance of cracking is that they were produced later in the series, and thus have less thermal cycles on them.  (Newer part with fewer years and miles on it.)  Mine is probably a minority view of one.

 

And, unless you have an MPFI engine, this info isn't very useful.


Edited by NorthWet, 18 May 2013 - 01:00 AM.


#16 scoobiedubie

scoobiedubie

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 468 posts
  • Aloha, Oregon

Posted 18 May 2013 - 01:34 AM

88RxTuner said


 

... the Gen3 heads have wider valve spacing in the head, which helps reduce the cracks that appear between the seats. They also have thicker casting in the exhaust port area, where these heads are notorious for cracking and leaking coolant. Generally speaking, they are an overall better casting of the same head.




 



#17 86 Wonder Wedge

86 Wonder Wedge

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • 374 posts
  • Akron, OH

Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:02 AM

So wait, if the valve spacing is different, then the valve stems and valve guides are different. If the valve stems and valve guides are different, the rocker/HLAs will be farther apart. If the rockers are farther apart, then the cam lobes have to be moved to match. If the cam lobes are father apart, that means a different cam for the Gen 3 heads (or maybe even a cam case/tower). Is there a different cam ever listed by Subaru?

 

And I've had gen 3 heads and they looked identical to the gen 2 heads in relation to valve spacing... thicker casting? probably, but they still had the valve seat cracks...

 

anyway, PO: the job is not for the faint of heart or someone who hasn't done a HG job before.. no real special tools needed, but there are lots of little tips and tricks that make the difference when it comes to long term success or short failure.



#18 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,252 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 20 May 2013 - 09:29 AM

"Gen 3 head", as used on this forum, refers simply to a casting mark on the head. 

 

To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever identified any substantive difference in this casting versus 2 other casting-marked "versions" that preceded it. 

 

My PERSONAL theory is that the only reason they are thought to have less chance of cracking is that they were produced later in the series, and thus have less thermal cycles on them.  (Newer part with fewer years and miles on it.)  Mine is probably a minority view of one.

 

And, unless you have an MPFI engine, this info isn't very useful.

 

+1 to all this

 

I've never seen any substantial (or really any) differencees between gen1/2 and gen 3 heads.

 

I am almost positive that the valves are the same, the rockers, and lifters are the same, the valves also seem to be the same size, the spec never changed in FUJI's literature.

 

They are just newer so less likely to have cracked yet.



#19 scoobiedubie

scoobiedubie

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 468 posts
  • Aloha, Oregon

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:40 AM

Scoobiedubie, I've been combing this forum for info on this very topic.

 

Can you describe what a Gen 3 head is, or what motor they are found on.  I'm not familiar with the different generation motors.

 

Thank 

As you can see here, there is a wide difference in opinions as to the advantages of the Gen 3's.  I have used all the generations.  From my experience, the Gen 3's are less likely to leak coolant when a crack forms between the intake and exhaust valves.  A cylinder head builder mentioned to me that the Gen 3's were worth their weight in gold.  A valve grinder mechanic went so far as to warranty the Gen 3's against leaks between the valves.  Subaru themselves, represented the Gen 3's as being better than the previous generations.  They apparently are so special, that their identification is not something that cylinder head rebuilders like to educate the public about.  Their work load was dependant on the public using the older generation cylinder heads, in my opinion.



#20 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,252 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:49 AM

To my knowledge, Subaru has never made any claims that these heads are better.  I've read ALOT of subaru literature about the EA cars.....never heard more than a passing mention about these heads.  Nothing I've read supports any claims of "thicker" or upgraded anything.

 

And the cracks between the vavles aren't were they leak anyhow.  That's why the "valve grinder Mechanic" (whatever that means???) will warranty them lol.  They don't leak there anyhow.

 

I don't buy the conspiracy theory either that machinist are trying to make us all use crappy old heads and hide the existance of better ones.

 

They really aren't any better.  Newer, less used. otherwise they are the same crappy EA82t heads they always were.

 

I think at this point the myth has become legend, and repeated so many times people believe it.  But look at the heads.  Cut a few open (like I have) and you will see that there is no difference.



#21 nncoolg

nncoolg

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • 142 posts
  • Gold Coast, Australia

Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:06 PM

There could of course be a difference in alloy compostion...


Edited by nncoolg, 24 May 2013 - 07:08 PM.


#22 ford'ssubaru's

ford'ssubaru's

    USMB is life!

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 178 posts
  • SPOKANE

Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:33 PM

I am not being sarcasted please don't beat me up but I would love to really back way up to the beginning.  Is the OP er even sure of the extent of the original problem.  We could be confusing him with alot of time and money he may not need to do.  I like the fact that the car has low miles.  Holy cow I want that motor.....  I ran my first EA82 for almost 300K  When the heads went they were junk.  I like the post about taking them both off and have them pressure tested.  I am sure that is what Mikaleda meant.  I took the heads off for the motor I mentioned off an EA82 with 160k to the machine shop and they did both for 150.00 which I was happy with because they looked good and completely resealed.  Now this is just my opinion.  It is not that hard to do a set of heads just takes patience.



#23 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 19,896 posts
  • WV

Posted 29 May 2013 - 07:55 AM

my first EA82 for almost 300K  When the heads went they were junk.  I like the post about taking them both off and have them pressure tested.  I am sure that is what Mikaleda meant.  I took the heads off for the motor I mentioned off an EA82 with 160k

 

EA82 turbo engines/heads are more problematic than the non-turbo heads, as such the discussions differ between the two.  non-turbo heads for instance never really need checked unless they were severely abused.



#24 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 29 May 2013 - 08:29 AM

EA82 turbo engines/heads are more problematic than the non-turbo heads, as such the discussions differ between the two.  non-turbo heads for instance never really need checked unless they were severely abused.

+1



#25 MilesFox

MilesFox

    Catch this Fox!

  • Members
  • 10,534 posts
  • Madison/Milwaukee, WI

Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:43 AM

I am not being sarcasted please don't beat me up but I would love to really back way up to the beginning.  Is the OP er even sure of the extent of the original problem.  We could be confusing him with alot of time and money he may not need to do.  I like the fact that the car has low miles.  Holy cow I want that motor.....  I ran my first EA82 for almost 300K  When the heads went they were junk.  I like the post about taking them both off and have them pressure tested.  I am sure that is what Mikaleda meant.  I took the heads off for the motor I mentioned off an EA82 with 160k to the machine shop and they did both for 150.00 which I was happy with because they looked good and completely resealed.  Now this is just my opinion.  It is not that hard to do a set of heads just takes patience.

If the OP suspects maybe the turbo has failed, perhaps consider the intake gaskets. 

 

Doing the heads ins not complicated on this engine. 

 

The intake is designed to come off as a whole unit all the way up to the MAF/airbox. Remove this first before attempting the turbo. 

 

If you are pulling the motor, the crosspipe and turbo can remain on the engine until you get it out. Same is true in reverse order, install the cross pipe and turbo before installing the engine.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users