Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Front End Rebuild Questions


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 djellum

djellum

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 588 posts
  • Vancouver WA

Posted 11 November 2012 - 12:25 AM

So I have the following. (for an 87 GL wagon with D/R)

New CV's with new hardware (cone washer and spring washer)
New bearings and seals
New ball Joints
New brakes (calipers, rotors)

Any recommendations on type or brand of brake pads? I believe the OE replacement are ceramic, but the store I bought the gear from only had semi-metallic so I opted to wait and check into it.

Any recommendations on wheel grease? the only stuff I have ever used was generic wheel grease that my dad used (was probably older than me), but I generally see white or yellow grease in the pics on the site. just checking if there is a special type that is used.

Any recommends on brake fluid? I have a users manual and Im sure its in there, but while im at work asking anyway ill throw it on the list. I have a hill holder but it doesnt work and is unhooked. Ideally I would like to fix it or bypass it completely so its not interfering, havent checked into that yet.

Anything else you can think of that I didnt mention, feel free to chime in.

#2 MilesFox

MilesFox

    Catch this Fox!

  • Members
  • 10,351 posts
  • Madison/Milwaukee, WI

Posted 11 November 2012 - 10:13 PM

Be sure to get some silicone caliper slide grease. I use high pressure grease for the bearings and use dot 3 brake fluid.

Remember to turn the pistons in when changing the pads; release the parking brake cables.

It helps to depress the clutch when bleeding rear brakes if the hillholder is still connected.

#3 92LoyaleH4

92LoyaleH4

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 80 posts
  • Lake City, PA USA

Posted 11 November 2012 - 11:56 PM

Be sure to get some silicone caliper slide grease. I use high pressure grease for the bearings and use dot 3 brake fluid.

Remember to turn the pistons in when changing the pads; release the parking brake cables.

It helps to depress the clutch when bleeding rear brakes if the hillholder is still connected.


ditto on the caliper slide grease (not many people realize how much this really does and you should put it behind and on the anti rattle parts and aroudn the pad itself...but be clean with it..don't get on pad or rotor)......I would recommend synthetic wheel bearing grease to...not a big deal to have synthetic (just make sure its disc brake approved - IE high heat) but that's what i'm doing to my loyale when i go to change the CV's. A bit slicker and lasts longer.

#4 Idasho

Idasho

    Lost in the woods....

  • Members
  • 952 posts
  • North ID

Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:12 AM

I wouldnt bother with new open wheel bearings.

Get some sealed ones. They can be had for CHEAP :headbang:

Posted Image

#5 kanurys

kanurys

    High Altitude GL

  • Members
  • 689 posts
  • Durango, CO

Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:26 AM

Where would you guys pick up the sealed wheel bearings for "cheap?"

#6 Idasho

Idasho

    Lost in the woods....

  • Members
  • 952 posts
  • North ID

Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:55 AM

http://www.ultimates...ad.php?t=135324

#7 kanurys

kanurys

    High Altitude GL

  • Members
  • 689 posts
  • Durango, CO

Posted 02 December 2012 - 12:21 PM

Thanks. I think I'll grab 4 of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/370620204013

#8 Crazyeights

Crazyeights

    SubaRube Goldberg

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 892 posts
  • PNW

Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

Great info on the sealed bearings! IMO stay away from semi met pads if you have alloy wheels or you'll be cleaning the nasty black brake dust off of them every week. Try a higher end ceramic pad or a Wagner Thermo Quiet like the PD314, ect. Just my opinion so :Flame: if you wish! :D

#9 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 8,894 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 02 December 2012 - 05:58 PM

I wouldnt bother with new open wheel bearings.

Get some sealed ones. They can be had for CHEAP :headbang:

Posted Image


They don't have enough grease in them for automotive application. And what they do have is crappy grease in an already crappy chinese bearing.

Every cheap sealed bearing I installed as is, has now failed.

You can use them, but the thing to do is to pry the seals out, pack them with good high temp grease, and then reinstall one of the seals to each bearing.

Then drive them into the hub with the "open" sides facing inward, toward eachother. Add a bit of grease to the area around the spacer too. Not filled though, it needs to have an airspace to expand.

This seems to work out pretty well so far.

#10 djellum

djellum

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 588 posts
  • Vancouver WA

Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:39 PM

I went with normal non sealed ones. I actually had a machine shop set them up. it was only $30 a side. They pressed out the old ones, hot tanked the housing, greased them with high temp grease, pressed them in, and greased and installed the seals. out the door for $70 I didnt feel was a bad deal at all.

i did search out some ceramic pads, got the wagners at O'rielys for $29. my pugs looked horrible in the front from the crap pads that were on it.

the project took longer than expected due to random BS, but its in now. Ball joints are good, the hubs dont clunk anymore, lots of noised went away.

2 standing problems are a bad CV from the box making horrible clunks when i drive, and the brakes are still a little mushy.

CV is stopping me from driving any signifigant miles. its in another thread though, ill probably end up just having to pay to have it replaced at the shop. i dont know what brand they use, but I know people who had them done there and they hold.

brakes work, I can lock them up, but its a little low to the floor and one pump brings them up to where I expect they should be. I had to bleed them myself, so I probably jsut didnt get all the air out. Any specific tricks for this system? I followed the order in the haynes and didnt run the master cyl dry, but so some air could have gotten pulled back in after a squirt. I did a normal gravity bleed after as well just in case, but who knows.

i do have a hill holder, but its not hooked up. I dont know if that changes the bleed proceedure. I should just hook it up, I have no idea why the person before me unhooked it. other than leaks I would think that if it wasnt working properly it just wouldnt hold pressure and you would roll, which is pretty much where I am at now.

Edited by djellum, 02 December 2012 - 06:44 PM.


#11 kanurys

kanurys

    High Altitude GL

  • Members
  • 689 posts
  • Durango, CO

Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:15 PM

I've used Thermo Quiets on several applications with great results. Just don't use them with slotted or drilled rotors. In my experience, they need the full surface area to brake well.

#12 djellum

djellum

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 588 posts
  • Vancouver WA

Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:41 PM

standard vented rotors, so no worries there. they seem to stop well and they are silent, so I like them so far as well.

#13 Idasho

Idasho

    Lost in the woods....

  • Members
  • 952 posts
  • North ID

Posted 02 December 2012 - 11:10 PM

They don't have enough grease in them for automotive application. And what they do have is crappy grease in an already crappy chinese bearing.

Every cheap sealed bearing I installed as is, has now failed.

You can use them, but the thing to do is to pry the seals out, pack them with good high temp grease, and then reinstall one of the seals to each bearing.

Then drive them into the hub with the "open" sides facing inward, toward eachother. Add a bit of grease to the area around the spacer too. Not filled though, it needs to have an airspace to expand.

This seems to work out pretty well so far.


Your getting the wrong bearings, or damaging them upon installation.
And who said anything about Chinese?

It doesnt matter the application. Even the cheap chinese sealed bearings ratings far exceed the forces that a subaru can dish out. Though I would recommend finding non-chinese bearings. Still, For $5 per bearing, whats all the fuss about??

For the record, the bearings you want are 6207-2RS-C3

#14 Idasho

Idasho

    Lost in the woods....

  • Members
  • 952 posts
  • North ID

Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:12 AM

here is some more fun info.

Actual ratings for said Chinese bearing as shown. The 6207 is on the bottom.

This is taken directly from http://www.bearingslimited.com/ which is the supplier for these bearings at Fastenal.

http://www.fastenal.....ex?sku=4126203

Posted Image

Take note of the max SPEED RATING and DYNAMIC LOAD rating.

Your little Subaru on stock tires will never push the wheels/tires past 1,000 RPM. These bearings are rated for 9,800 RPM :rolleyes: 90% difference.

Your little subaru weighs about 3,000lbs. Evenly distributed thats 750lbs per wheel. Two bearings per wheel thats less than 400lbs per bearing. These bearings are rated at 5,800lbs EACH. :popcorn: 94% difference.

#15 djellum

djellum

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 588 posts
  • Vancouver WA

Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:58 AM

I wouldnt be too worried using the sealed ones, but there is more to the stresses they see than curb weight, and the wheels can easily spin over 1k in first, and also pretty easy in 2nd or 3rd, though they are no where near 9800.

are those sealed ones actual automotive ratings? machinery operates very differently so I could easily see where the machinery bearing would fit but not be set up for automotive.

tbh I never really had any issues with normal greased bearings. they looked decent when I pulled them so I just replaced them with normal equipment.

#16 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 19,666 posts
  • WV

Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:59 AM

as you probably already know - aftermarket CV supplies are terrible. my preferred options:

1. reboot yours (noisy ones quiet up and ride fine cleaned with fresh grease but that's obviously not what you're after)
2. reboot another OEM axle from a yard/board/etc (found your thread)
3. MWE
4. trade my left kidney for a good one
5. aftermarket

I've seen tons of issues with aftermarkets myself and issues abound online.

as to the bearing question i'm not well versed in bearings but while loads are nice, numbers don't always guarantee practical use and reliability. There are numerous examples I believe...like:

Im sure 1999 Forester rear wheel bearing charts were good and within specifications like you're pointing too....yet they are a known weak spot and failure item.

Edited by grossgary, 03 December 2012 - 01:03 AM.


#17 Idasho

Idasho

    Lost in the woods....

  • Members
  • 952 posts
  • North ID

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:13 AM

and the wheels can easily spin over 1k in first, and also pretty easy in 2nd or 3rd,


No, they dont.

A stock tire is about 24" tall. That gives it a circumference of 6.28 feet.

There are 5280 feet in a mile. 5280/6.28 = 840.76 revolutions per mile.

Driving 1 mile per minute (60 miles per hr) the tires are doing just that. 840 RPM

Take that 840RPM and you can figure out how fast you actually need to travel to spin the tires to 1000rpm.

840/60 = 14

1000/14 = MPH to reach 1k wheel RPM.



Your answer is 71.42mph

No way in hell you are doing that in 1st or 2nd gear. Possibly 3rd. Still, 1000 is a FAR cry from 9800

#18 djellum

djellum

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 588 posts
  • Vancouver WA

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:17 AM

im not really opposed to anything that will get me on the road, I just dont like "patches" on some things. I have already had an axle come out of its hub socket at 60 mph. the wheel didnt come off even though the axle nut and cone washer assembly was rattling in the hubcap, so I figure that took at least 3 of my 9 right there.

this one is completely done though. its not clicking, its thumping like a base drum anytime I give it over 25% throttle in any gear, and vibrates and makes noise even at speed. the other side seems fine, but hard to tell with the drivers side acting up so badly.

anyways, ill take a look at the ones I have and see what is what. ill just attempt to gather 4 oem ones to rebuild over time, and replace as needed.

#19 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 19,666 posts
  • WV

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

this one is completely done though. its not clicking, its thumping

oh yeah, i wouldn't be attempting to keep any of the "new" ones you just bought, i'd hope to retain the old originals and clean, regrease, and reboot them.

a forum member on subaruxt.com said he's had great luck doing both axles at the same time and then swapping "cups"...or some other parts from one side to the other - he said since the loading is different it presents fresh surfaces to the other side when you swap the parts....im probably wording it wrong. i've done axles but never what he's talking about so i'm not sure what it means. wayne is his name over there.

#20 88wacaroo

88wacaroo

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • 235 posts
  • Denver,Co.

Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:33 PM

oh yeah, i wouldn't be attempting to keep any of the "new" ones you just bought, i'd hope to retain the old originals and clean, regrease, and reboot them.

a forum member on subaruxt.com said he's had great luck doing both axles at the same time and then swapping "cups"...or some other parts from one side to the other - he said since the loading is different it presents fresh surfaces to the other side when you swap the parts....im probably wording it wrong. i've done axles but never what he's talking about so i'm not sure what it means. wayne is his name over there.

First off China bearings are junk,along w/mexico,brazil,so on they use 3rd rate steel!! The best bearings you can buy is U.S.made,german-$$$ but good!! Mexico is the worst metal you can use-anything steel is JUNK-they put POT Metal in it pretty much anything that"ll melt and stay together the"ll use BAD BAD, China not much better...Trust me I do Fabrication-Welding I know :brow: Now on to the axle issue..If it"s clunking and vibrating that bad I"d sh*tcan it!! It"ll just tear up the bearings on the hub and the tranny output shaft...And switching cups around sounds like alot of work for not much reward.... Good luck

Edited by 88wacaroo, 03 December 2012 - 12:37 PM.


#21 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 8,894 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:21 AM

Your getting the wrong bearings, or damaging them upon installation.
And who said anything about Chinese?


No

And no.

And for $5 bucks, how can it not be Chinese?

I don't damage them. And they are correct for type.....but.......they don't have enough good grease in them. That was my statement. Grease them and they seem adequate.

However, if you're gonna go that route, you might as well get $20 Koyo, Japanese bearings like came from the factory.

#22 kanurys

kanurys

    High Altitude GL

  • Members
  • 689 posts
  • Durango, CO

Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:50 PM

OOOOOKKKKK... would one of these NTN sealed bearings fit my 1987 GL wagon?

http://www.partsgeek...CFexAMgodsFMAWQ

or

http://www.partsgeek...CFck7MgodYzEAPQ

Thanks

#23 Petersubaru

Petersubaru

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,087 posts
  • Sarnia Canada

Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:19 PM

OOOOOKKKKK... would one of these NTN sealed bearings fit my 1987 GL wagon?

http://www.partsgeek...CFexAMgodsFMAWQ

or

http://www.partsgeek...CFck7MgodYzEAPQ

Thanks

..I have been running my loyale on these bearing for many miles now..can't go wrong with NTN or SKF..both companies work very closely with each other..

#24 kanurys

kanurys

    High Altitude GL

  • Members
  • 689 posts
  • Durango, CO

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:12 PM

Cool. How are the companies close? Also, I just want to confirm that loyale bearings are the same ones for my 1987 GL.

#25 Petersubaru

Petersubaru

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,087 posts
  • Sarnia Canada

Posted 04 December 2012 - 10:13 PM

First off China bearings are junk,along w/mexico,brazil,so on they use 3rd rate steel!! The best bearings you can buy is U.S.made,german-$$$ but good!! Mexico is the worst metal you can use-anything steel is JUNK-they put POT Metal in it pretty much anything that"ll melt and stay together the"ll use BAD BAD, China not much better...Trust me I do Fabrication-Welding I know :brow: Now on to the axle issue..If it"s clunking and vibrating that bad I"d sh*tcan it!! It"ll just tear up the bearings on the hub and the tranny output shaft...And switching cups around sounds like alot of work for not much reward.... Good luck

..here are the facts..it really does not matter where the bearings are made..you want bearings that come from "Certified Plants"..manufacturing facilities that adhere to the same exacting standards through out the world...NtN of SKF are such companies ..so if for example a bearing made in Korea would be identical to one made in the US..this cannot be said about some German companies such as F.A.G., which have both types of manuf qualities ..certified and subpar..




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users