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Advice on My Problem


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18 replies to this topic

#1 Oldmics

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 02:10 AM

Not sure how it happened but my 1990 Sub wagon (2 wheel drive automatic) ran low enough on oil to seize and snap one of the timing belts.

 

The mechanic that worked on it said that although it was seized on the broken belt side he freed it up and replaced both belts.

 

My question is how bad has this damaged my engine?

 

Its an original mileage 58K - EA82 engine.The mechanic said get rid of it.But he also said that those engines were only good for about 80K and then they were worn out.

 

The wagon is pristeen with no rust at all.I"m considering rebuilding the engine.Perhaps running the current engine till it dies and acquiring a junk yard rebuildable core.

 

I realise there are no gaurantees but opinions are welcomed.

 

Thanks,Oldmics



#2 Lacyjs9

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:02 AM

i dont know much about the damage but can tell you your mechanic is a twit for saying the engine is only good for 80k he is probably A: Only likes american cars B:dont know what he is talking about or C: will offer you a stupid low ball price for the car cause he knows he can get some money out of it.



#3 MilesFox

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 07:57 AM

Sounds like you need a different mechanic. The belt broke due to age, or a bad tensioner pulley. The engine is good till 300,000 miles before it was worn out. He probably meant the timing belts are worn out by 80,000 miles, which they should have been replaced by 60,000 miles anyway.

 

keep the car, it is simple to fix. Consider investing in a few basic tools and doing work yourself. Try to get a partial refund from your mechanic since he took your money over false statements.



#4 NorthWet

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:19 AM

Sounds like you need a different mechanic. The belt broke due to age, or a bad tensioner pulley. The engine is good till 300,000 miles before it was worn out. He probably meant the timing belts are worn out by 80,000 miles, which they should have been replaced by 60,000 miles anyway.

 

keep the car, it is simple to fix. Consider investing in a few basic tools and doing work yourself. Try to get a partial refund from your mechanic since he took your money over false statements.

+1

 

To elaborate, I think that a misunderstanding exists.  Either the mechanic did not communicate properly, or you were misled... or maybe something inbetween.

 

Seizure due to oil starvation would not just go away with a new timing belt; it is also unlikelty that a seized engine would snap a timing belt.  The usual scenario is that the belt breaks because it needed replacing, or a tensioner/idler seizes, and either snaps a belt or makes it so the engine appears seized because the belt doesn't want to move.


Edited by NorthWet, 02 May 2013 - 09:10 AM.


#5 rdweninger

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 12:13 PM

Your engine DID NOT SIEZE.   It was a timing belt tensioner that seized.  The complete timing belts (2), tensioners (2) and idler wheel is maybe $80.  The labor to install should no more than 2 hours.   

Any charges for un-seizing the motor should be refunded... because NOBODY can do that.

Get a new mechanic... he is either an idiot or a theif.  Ask your local USMB members for advice first.



#6 robm

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:05 PM

At 58 k miles and 20+ years old, your timing belt was ready to go.  It did no damage at all to the engine when it broke.  These engines typically run to 300 k miles, not 80k.

 

I actually did run my engine low on oil, and snapped a timing belt.  The engine didn't seize, the oil pump did.   That was at 150k miles.  New belts, new oil pump, and ran it to 215 k when catastrophic head gasket failure, combined with a rotting body, put it away.  It burned no oil, there was no apparent bearing damage, it just ran.

(Note that the oil pump did free itself.  I found it was shot when I resealed it, to get rid of the oil leak that caused the problem in the first place.  The pump bearing was damaged, but it would turn.)

 

So, it is possible (but not likely) you did the same, but I wouldn't worry about it.  The oil pump acts like a fuse, breaking the belt and shutting off the engine before there is significant bearing damage.  If this did happen, maybe your engine won't last 300 - 400 k, the way it is supposed to, but I bet you can run it till the body rots off.

 

You idea of running the engine until it dies is the way to go.  It will be a long time before you will need a new engine.



#7 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 03:27 PM

... The engine is good till 300,000 miles before it was worn out. ...

 

...These engines typically run to 300 k miles, not 80k. ... maybe your engine won't last 300 - 400 k, the way it is supposed to, but I bet you can run it till the body rots off.

 

You idea of running the engine until it dies is the way to go.  It will be a long time before you will need a new engine.

 

I've seen EA82's with much more than 600K and still Running...

 

I Agree that Running the engine 'till it eventually dies, is the way to Go.

 

Kind Regards.



#8 skishop69

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:27 PM

There is another possibility here.... The mechanic is still a schmuck either way.  The way I read it is a cam seized up. If it got low enough on oil, the first things that get starved are the cam journals. It is possible to gall a cam journal causing it to seize, break the worn belt and then be freed back up. I have freed 'seized' cams on Hondas before. If it starts and runs, check the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge and see where it's at. If it looks good or not, you'll have an accurate reading of where it is. Find out which side seized and pull that cam tower. Remove the cam and inspect the journals. If the damage is minimal and the oil pressure good, you could theoretically get away with smoothing the journal with emery cloth an reassemble it. If it's bad, you can replace that head and cam tower with used parts WAY cheaper and be back on the road right. No reason that motor can't hit 300K if it's not abused and you maintain the cooling system. Be nice to the mechanic until you get the information, then fire his sorry a**.


Edited by skishop69, 02 May 2013 - 08:28 PM.


#9 scoobiedubie

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 10:28 PM

What proof do you have that the engine seized, given that you have an automatic?



#10 Lacyjs9

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 04:19 PM

so if the timing belt breaks it doesnt do damage to the pistons and valves?



#11 Ibreakstuff

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:15 PM

so if the timing belt breaks it doesnt do damage to the pistons and valves?

 

Nope, ea82=non-interference



#12 crazyhorse001

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 05:20 PM

With a little know-how, and a few wrenches, you can do timing belts along side the road in a few minutes. EA82's are that simple.

#13 Lacyjs9

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 06:27 PM

sweet is there any break downs on here you guys know of id like to replace the  tensioners when i do it 



#14 djellum

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 08:15 PM

most kits will come with tensioners and belts.  search youtube for Miles Fox, he has videos of doing most stuff on these.



#15 thealleyboy

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:23 PM

I have had a couple of EA82's burn up on me, but it's not the norm.  Everything mentioned above is the troof. EA 82's are non-interference, strong bottom end...  Head gaskets are a weak point, and it you run any motor dry on oil, well you know what happens... 

 

I'll give the mechanic the benefit of a doubt cause he actually diagnosed it.  A car that old that that has sat for a long time could conceivably has some condensation, and if you ran it  on old oil for a long period of time then it could have had a catastrophic failure. But the belt and the oil abuse are two seperate issues, and if the belt went first, I would say the two problems were unrelated.

 

I would do the timing belt and see what happens. Do it yourself. At this point you have nothing to lose except your time and effort, and about $30 for belts. Fox has a great write-up on the timing belt procedure floating around somewhere on this site. Well worth the effort for the educational value alone.

 

If I was a betting man, I'd say that you will be able to revive this car at the very least, and maybe have a runner if you follow thru on getting the maintenance caught up.  The EA82's were a transitional series, with lots of problems but you still have to screw up pretty bad to trash one out completely. Do the belts, and check compression, and you'll know where things stand.   good Luck, John



#16 Gloyale

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Posted 03 May 2013 - 09:53 PM

Worst case replace the oil pump and live with the damage and call it good for likely a long time.



#17 Oldmics

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 01:11 AM

Thanks for all the replys.The kicker is that I had recently changed the oil and filter.It had not been run 1000 miles since the oil change.So I question that it was low on oil as it does not leak.

 

I did notice and hear some additional valve clatter just before the engine quit.Thats why I was sorta believeing the mechanic about it being low on oil-but just not 100% sure.

 

I have had the car repaired but still need to monitor the oil pressure with a real gauge on it.The mechanics comment about the seized cam could possibly have been the tensioner seized.

 

I will report back in a few days.

 

Oldmics


Edited by Oldmics, 05 May 2013 - 01:23 AM.


#18 MilesFox

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 09:54 AM

sweet is there any break downs on here you guys know of id like to replace the  tensioners when i do it 

 

watchthe other videos of the series for engine seals, install, etc. sorry, it does not ilustrate doing the oil pump, but that is easy enough to figure out if you have the timing belts off.



#19 l75eya

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 12:36 PM

Ha, funny you posted that. Saved me yesterday when I changed the oil pump for Glen on here (guy with the green wagon). One of the cams must have rotated and after all was said and done the car wouldn't start. I tried futzing around with the timing by myself for about 20 minutes and then gave up, watched your video, and had the car running again in literally like 5 minutes.

Thanks for those videos Miles. They are awesome.






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