Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Ultimate ea82 build


  • Please log in to reply
85 replies to this topic

#51 tweety

tweety

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • 207 posts
  • Euroa Victoria Australia

Posted 14 July 2013 - 06:41 PM

Im not against EA82T's in any way. id buy one right now if I found one
that was nice and had the money, but they already have issues that are
just increased by these performance upgrades and my perfect motor is one
that I drive often and dont have to fix. 

 

That is a relevant point.  The enjoyment of owning any vehicle is to drive it.  No joy in spending oodles of hours under the bonnet fixing it.  And so this is relevant to the OP too.  An "ultimate EA82" would likely mean a reliable and sound engine.  So what HP is 'ideal' for reliability?  It is a very good question.  My ea81 SC12 has 100hp at 5psi draw through. Was at one stage going to raise the boost to 8-9psi, an easy task of swapping a pulley.  But there must be a limit and in my case an unknown limit of breakage about to happen without more expense like forged pistons and lowering compression and the like.  So I wodner if you guys can give an estimate of hp for the EA82 and Ea81 before there is risk of losing reliability? 20%?



#52 djellum

djellum

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 614 posts
  • Vancouver WA

Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:43 AM

no clear number really.  install an exhaust temp gauge near the head.  that will tell you if you begin to run lean as your exhaust temperature will raise (sorry I dont remember what the degree was that was in the yellow/red).  you can install a combustion chamber temp gauge but that takes machining.  as long as you can maintain the fuel flow and keep the combustion cool, then I think you will be ok for the most part.  you can stress head gaskets, but yours is pretty fresh.  heat and head gaskets are likely your main concerns.



#53 -tombba-

-tombba-

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • 146 posts
  • Finland

Posted 15 July 2013 - 05:05 AM

The gasoline is ofcourse one reason for higher power in our engines. Regular gasoline is RON95 with 10% ethanol in it and te other option is RON98 with 5% ethanol in it (ofcourse there is special blends like V-power thatäs supposed to be over RON100 but it's utterly expensive too). I don't know about the fuel ratings in US other than the premium what I've understood to be RON97 with 10% ethanol in it so it's pretty near of our RON98.

 

I've understood that the stock boost in US engines is around 7-8 PSI so hat too has ofcourse a lot to do wth the uprated power since out engines run near 10PSI.BUT still I tend to up my boost around to 13-14 PSI with no problems. It might be just the timing figures, boost level that makes the difference ofcourse. But I imagine using the US premium gasoline it's just as achievable as in here to run it reliably with the stock power ratings we got.



#54 Tman1058

Tman1058

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Potlatch Idaho

Posted 15 July 2013 - 12:32 PM

The gasoline is ofcourse one reason for higher power in our engines. Regular gasoline is RON95 with 10% ethanol in it and te other option is RON98 with 5% ethanol in it (ofcourse there is special blends like V-power thatäs supposed to be over RON100 but it's utterly expensive too). I don't know about the fuel ratings in US other than the premium what I've understood to be RON97 with 10% ethanol in it so it's pretty near of our RON98.
 
I've understood that the stock boost in US engines is around 7-8 PSI so hat too has ofcourse a lot to do wth the uprated power since out engines run near 10PSI.BUT still I tend to up my boost around to 13-14 PSI with no problems. It might be just the timing figures, boost level that makes the difference ofcourse. But I imagine using the US premium gasoline it's just as achievable as in here to run it reliably with the stock power ratings we got.


I live in a small town in north idaho, and at our fuel pump we have 82 & 85 octane that's 10% ethanol, and we have 92 octane that's ethanol free

#55 TallonX

TallonX

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 174 posts
  • Rochester, Wa

Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:09 PM

Octane... RON MON AKI... bleck...

In all actuality there is only 2 different octanes, mid grade is a "dealers choice" mix from the tanker.

Ethanol is used to increase the compression value of well sh*t fuel. I run premium in anything over an 8.7:1 compression ratio.

Just my 2 cents and sorry guys my numbers were apparently JDM

#56 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 15 July 2013 - 02:18 PM

Much of this talk about numbers is not terribly useful, as they are not necessarily measured the same way.  In the US, our "octane" numbers are calculated differently then most other places.  (US ratings are typically 3 points lower than the ratings in other countries.)

 

Likewise, power rating numbers are not necessarily comparable.  50 years ago, during our "muscle car" era in the US, the ratings were given in SAE Gross HP, but that fell out of favor a few years later and was replaced with SAE Net HP, which was often 20-30% less than the Gross rating.  KWH to Hp conversions, there are different conversion factors depending on what standard is used.

 

All this adds up to trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

Contrary to the previous poster, there are not just 2 "octane" grades.  There is whatever the refiner chooses to produce (within the bounds of chemistry and physics).  And "octane" doesn't mean power or energy, just the fuel's resistance to decomposition under heat and pressure into molecules that have a lower spontaneous ignition temperature.  Higher "octane rating" fuel tends to burn slower, necessitating greater ignition advance in order to get the most power out of it.



#57 TallonX

TallonX

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 174 posts
  • Rochester, Wa

Posted 15 July 2013 - 04:59 PM

Uhm AKI resistance to compression before detonation, you get better performance from high compression engines using premium cause the fuel doesn't explode before spark

Some states still use MON as well as RON it was a east coast west coast thing, Washington is AKI (RON+MON/2) where I get gas all along the I-5 corridor there is the 3 values at the pump mid is a mix of low and high at the tanker. Well cept for the Auburn area... you can get Trick Racing fuel.

Edited by TallonX, 15 July 2013 - 05:08 PM.


#58 TallonX

TallonX

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 174 posts
  • Rochester, Wa

Posted 15 July 2013 - 05:46 PM

Since modifying a post from my phone is a pain and going rounds saying the same thing different ways back and forth is moot, I usually don't trust Wikipedia but it's something to read besides bad pics of an old college report lol

http://en.m.wikipedi...i/Octane_rating

#59 djellum

djellum

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 614 posts
  • Vancouver WA

Posted 16 July 2013 - 02:37 PM

octane rating isnt about performance, its about reliability.  once the situation in the combustion chamber gets to the point of detonation you need to up your octane rating to protect your motor.  it will run better, but only because its running as intended (or closer to it)

 

I think if you actually did all the math, you would find that the cars here and wherever you are Tallonx, would be built the same.  we know that HP calculations and octane ratings are different in different areas, so it will really take some math or a build sheet on a motor to tell. I do beleive from some other talks here, that once the math was done out, europe generally did have a slightly better octane rating, but it wasnt by very much 

 

the only one that really makes me think is your boost.  if your using the same PSI we use, as many countries do, then you would be cresting the hill for what I think a car over here would do.  gas would make a difference, and its not going to blow up tomorrow or anything, but I would wonder if the fuel system could keep up with it very well.  if theres any difference I would think the fuel system would be one of them.



#60 Uberoo

Uberoo

    Subaru Wheeler

  • Members
  • 3,405 posts
  • lewiston,ID

Posted 16 July 2013 - 05:41 PM

octane rating isnt about performance, its about reliability.  once the situation in the combustion chamber gets to the point of detonation you need to up your octane rating to protect your motor.  it will run better, but only because its running as intended (or closer to it)

 

I think if you actually did all the math, you would find that the cars here and wherever you are Tallonx, would be built the same.  we know that HP calculations and octane ratings are different in different areas, so it will really take some math or a build sheet on a motor to tell. I do beleive from some other talks here, that once the math was done out, europe generally did have a slightly better octane rating, but it wasnt by very much 

 

the only one that really makes me think is your boost.  if your using the same PSI we use, as many countries do, then you would be cresting the hill for what I think a car over here would do.  gas would make a difference, and its not going to blow up tomorrow or anything, but I would wonder if the fuel system could keep up with it very well.  if theres any difference I would think the fuel system would be one of them.

 Once the engine is at the point that detonation occurs, higher octane gas is a BANDAID not a CURE.Change the heat range of the plugs and/or pull back timing.If the detonation is so severe that it still persists after changing the plugs and the timing then run higher octane gas.The way some of the posts in this thread are it sounds like you guys would be perfectly happy running race gas on the street in your sub 200 HP engine.



#61 tweety

tweety

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • 207 posts
  • Euroa Victoria Australia

Posted 16 July 2013 - 06:29 PM

When I mated my EA81 NA to my VW auto transmission, I no longer had the timing marks to tune the engine.  At that time I didnt even know the timing marks were on the flywheel. So I scratched my head wondering how to tune the engine.

 

The crank pulley has a notch on it for top dead centre.  The pulley when calculating the circumference (based on I think 135mm diameter) was 360mm.  This meant one degree equals 1mm.  So it was hand timed to 12 degrees.

 

Once running I rode up a hill at low revs continuously until the pinging (detonation) fully stopped. When I placed the timing light on the pulley it was at 8 degrees. This tuning method remain for me the best way to tune the engine spot on.

 

Back to the EA82 'ultimate'.  There must be many EA81/2 owners out there that want to squeeze a little more out of their engines with just head work.  The work level of taking the heads off only, to a full dismantle is staggering. I've read where "all the benefits are in the head work" to the other extreme "you cant get much more efficiency out of those heads due to their design".  Most of us know the restrictions in the head design and that is a given.  Having said that and accepted it, what are the readers experiences in modifying the heads.  eg  bigger valves?, how much porting is feasible and of benefit?, twin spark heads etc.  Lets stick to non boost.  SPFI would of course be a major addition. If so we have a measured fuel/air mixture what we need is max combustion chamber efficiency.



#62 apintonut

apintonut

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 236 posts
  • ravensdale wa

Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:34 AM

I'd put the delta cams in an EJ22, mod an escort distributor to fit the head and modify the intake for a carb. Then take your spare cash and buy/make an adapter plate and flywheel to bolt it to the EA dual range 4x4 transmission.

how come this is the only reference to to this mod i can find 



#63 WoodsWagon

WoodsWagon

    Formerly 91Loyale

  • Members
  • 3,945 posts
  • NH

Posted 15 August 2013 - 01:25 PM

http://www.ultimates...nd-no-computer/
There's been a few done. The phase1 EJ sohc heads have a removable plug on the back of the passenger side head and a slot cut in the cam for a distributor to engage with. Subaru sold them overseas carbed and with a distributor. Since we never got that here, someone found that an early 80's ford Escort distributor fit and just the mounting flange needs to be modified for the clamp bolt to hold it.

The factory carbed manifolds combine the water crossover pipe with the manifold so the intake is heated to keep the fuel from condensing. It also drops the intake down lower so the carb can stack on top without hitting the hood. You could import one of these manifolds (good luck), or you could chop into an EFI manifold to add on a carb base flange though that might end up with the air cleaner sticking out of the hood.

#64 Uberoo

Uberoo

    Subaru Wheeler

  • Members
  • 3,405 posts
  • lewiston,ID

Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:03 PM

how come this is the only reference to to this mod i can find 

the question is WHY would you want to?The fuel injection setup on that engine is better in almost every single way compared to carb. Although carbed EJ's do sound better.Still loosing MPG,power,and reliability for better sound is hard to justify.



#65 WoodsWagon

WoodsWagon

    Formerly 91Loyale

  • Members
  • 3,945 posts
  • NH

Posted 17 August 2013 - 08:10 PM

A distributor and carb are easy to understand for simpler people and it makes them feel more confident about swapping an EJ into their car. The more EJ's in the more EA cars the better. Heck, it also helps get them in more VW's because most of those people are so benighted they won't even use the stock VW EFI (which I have a running example of from 1968).

The EFI is for sure better, I used it in my EJ swap. But the market for a simple, wiring free, EJ swap kit is certainly out there.

#66 iam15andownaBRAT

iam15andownaBRAT

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Klang,Selangor

Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:51 AM

Thank you, tweety, for keeping us on track. I do not want to do an ej. I have an ea82 sitting on my shop floor, and I don't have an ej, it's as simple as that. I will be the first to admit that the ej swap is pretty cool, but I don't want to be that guy. Just because everyone else is doing it does not mean that I wish to. Anyways, i've been doing some thinking, and I think a pull through with a toyota previa supercharger and side draft weber(s)... what you guys think?

Again all opinions are appreciated, but I would like to keep the ej talk to a minimum.
Thanks

Based on what I have read,I agree too on your thought.No doubt carrying out an engine swap(EJ Series) would provide more power and would make it much less of a hassle finding spare parts in case of any wear and tear,but it retaliates by terms of cost and complexity of doing so(engine swap).So what?Power isn't everything,right?.By the way,the EA82 is a fine engine.Maybe if one do require some additional power,light tuning would be fine.Leaving it stock is pretty would be better.Please,Do not throw me bad feed backs if you disagree with me.There are those of you whom are wiser than I am.Please forgive ME for if anything that may seem rude.


Edited by iam15andownaBRAT, 17 November 2013 - 12:19 AM.


#67 Uberoo

Uberoo

    Subaru Wheeler

  • Members
  • 3,405 posts
  • lewiston,ID

Posted 16 November 2013 - 05:11 PM

As much as I hate EA82's they are an OK engine IF It is maintained and IF they are kept stock.The cooling passages through the block are barely adequate at stock power levels,raising the power is asking for trouble.The Ea82 block is based on the Ea81,with 10 less HP its cooling system worked great.The Ea82 has the same roughly 1/2-3/4" holes for coolant from both sides of the engine.The EJ22 has a 1.5" pipe that connects both sides of the block for cooling.

 

 

Think of it this way the Ea81 has roughly 15-20 HP at it could be raised before cooling system issue come up,the Ea82 has about 10 hp to be gained before the cooling system can't cope(on flat ground,not even mentioning hills).The Ej series engines with the big crossover tube the cooling bottlenecks at the radiator,a bigger radiator is easy to find,enlarging the holes in an Ea82 block is not.

 

The only way an Ea82 will live a long life is if it is maintained immaculately and kept stock.



#68 iam15andownaBRAT

iam15andownaBRAT

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Klang,Selangor

Posted 17 November 2013 - 12:21 AM

As much as I hate EA82's they are an OK engine IF It is maintained and IF they are kept stock.The cooling passages through the block are barely adequate at stock power levels,raising the power is asking for trouble.The Ea82 block is based on the Ea81,with 10 less HP its cooling system worked great.The Ea82 has the same roughly 1/2-3/4" holes for coolant from both sides of the engine.The EJ22 has a 1.5" pipe that connects both sides of the block for cooling.

 

 

Think of it this way the Ea81 has roughly 15-20 HP at it could be raised before cooling system issue come up,the Ea82 has about 10 hp to be gained before the cooling system can't cope(on flat ground,not even mentioning hills).The Ej series engines with the big crossover tube the cooling bottlenecks at the radiator,a bigger radiator is easy to find,enlarging the holes in an Ea82 block is not.

 

The only way an Ea82 will live a long life is if it is maintained immaculately and kept stock.

Well said.



#69 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,674 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 17 November 2013 - 12:21 PM

... not to say there havent been 200hp EA's, ...

 

Yes, no "Stock" EA engines such Power increase, the main bottleneck are the Heads; but if you have enough money, you can purchase an Aviation version of the EA81 / EA82 with Huge improvement on their heads; such like these:

 

 

200HpSuperChargedSubaruEA81Engine.jpg

 

 

RamEnginesEA82.jpg

 

 

How about DOHC 16 Valve's heads for the EA82, made by AutoFlight, in Nz:

 

DOHCEA82Head_zpsc97c5ff7.jpg

 

 

A140N001.jpg

 

 

H6224.jpg


Edited by Loyale 2.7 Turbo, 17 November 2013 - 12:21 PM.


#70 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,674 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 17 November 2013 - 12:23 PM

Here is a Video of the Prototype's first starting:

 



#71 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,674 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 17 November 2013 - 12:24 PM

Much more Photos...

 

 

H6245.jpg

 

 

... Here:

 

~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/131098-dohc-ea82-aviation/

 

Kind Regards.



#72 Uberoo

Uberoo

    Subaru Wheeler

  • Members
  • 3,405 posts
  • lewiston,ID

Posted 17 November 2013 - 10:17 PM

that DOHC EA82 sounds weird.



#73 CarpeNoctem

CarpeNoctem

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 89 posts
  • Las Vegas, NV

Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:52 PM

crazy heads aside. and leaving out engine specifics that are better left to those who know the engine better than I (subie newbie) 
I can make a few suggestions. keep in mind I'm in the naturally aspirated camp. well that or roots superchargers boost should be linear or not at all. 

 

I'll likely be argued with but on a wheeler I'd leave carbs out right from the off. they have angle limitations that injection doesn't. So allow me to propose a weird alternative. Dual intake with motorcycle throttle bodies and and regular automotive injectors and a megasquirt EFI system. this will require the fabrication of a trigger ring on the crank but it gives you so much in return.

 

  • distributorless ignition
  • computer controlled timing
  • adjustable fuel tuning to replace economy minded tuning 
  • Dual intake replaces the old  one and gives you the best throttle response possible. no more exhaust or coolant heat going through intake charge (i'd recommend phenolic spacers as well to keep intake heat down)

Not sure I'd bother worrying about exhaust other than tossing the cat, which isn't needed on a wheeler. that is unless I wanted to get crazy. Then I'd probably run dual exhaust straight through the hood. saves you the chance of having water in the exhaust down below cause too much backpressure and cut the engine out. but also because I'm still 12 years old and it'd look cool  :lol:. although I would personally still run it  with a stock size pipe and small mufflers. the short length of the pipe will be a big flow increase as it is you don't want to run straight pipe like this or you'll have too little back pressure and reduce performance. 

 

 

 

Internal engine I leave to people with more experience as I said before. but you cal always run a small universal roots supercharger in the place of the A/C to both intakes and make it really fun if you beef up the bottom end. that would be my route because I hate turbos I don't like going in and out of boost. roots SC just makes it feel like a bigger motor because the boost is always the same no matter the rpm



#74 turbosubarubrat

turbosubarubrat

    2nd gen hoarder

  • Members
  • 1,076 posts
  • Sandy, OR

Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:05 PM

crazy heads aside. and leaving out engine specifics that are better left to those who know the engine better than I (subie newbie) 
I can make a few suggestions. keep in mind I'm in the naturally aspirated camp. well that or roots superchargers boost should be linear or not at all. 

 

I'll likely be argued with but on a wheeler I'd leave carbs out right from the off. they have angle limitations that injection doesn't. So allow me to propose a weird alternative. Dual intake with motorcycle throttle bodies and and regular automotive injectors and a megasquirt EFI system. this will require the fabrication of a trigger ring on the crank but it gives you so much in return.

 

  • distributorless ignition
  • computer controlled timing
  • adjustable fuel tuning to replace economy minded tuning 
  • Dual intake replaces the old  one and gives you the best throttle response possible. no more exhaust or coolant heat going through intake charge (i'd recommend phenolic spacers as well to keep intake heat down)

Not sure I'd bother worrying about exhaust other than tossing the cat, which isn't needed on a wheeler. that is unless I wanted to get crazy. Then I'd probably run dual exhaust straight through the hood. saves you the chance of having water in the exhaust down below cause too much backpressure and cut the engine out. but also because I'm still 12 years old and it'd look cool  :lol:. although I would personally still run it  with a stock size pipe and small mufflers. the short length of the pipe will be a big flow increase as it is you don't want to run straight pipe like this or you'll have too little back pressure and reduce performance. 

 

 

 

Internal engine I leave to people with more experience as I said before. but you cal always run a small universal roots supercharger in the place of the A/C to both intakes and make it really fun if you beef up the bottom end. that would be my route because I hate turbos I don't like going in and out of boost. roots SC just makes it feel like a bigger motor because the boost is always the same no matter the rpm

If you did all of that there would be no point in haveing a ea82 or ea81 just throw in a ej22 or ej25 or franken motor and call it good. The injecters can cost more than a ej22 plus all the mods wouldn't be worth it cost wise compared to what a newer motor would offer. Considering it already has most of the stuff you want plus you can just use a lap top as the ecm to controll everything.

 

Unless you run a car side ways or upside down a carb is fine plus on a subaru ea style motor you get more power out of a carb anyway over the weak single injector throttle body. Lots of people have ran there motors stock wheeling for years with stock carb or a weber and they dont complain much. If they do they just upgrade the engine for more power or fuel injection swap for better reliabilaty but a tuned carb is still good and is very reliable.  I have to admit the ea81 and ea82 turbo motors have good power for how small they are because there multi port fuel injection (2 injecters in each head) with a throttle body. I wouldn't run one of the turbos off road though since it would crack the turbo for sure or blow a head gasket.



#75 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,674 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 18 November 2013 - 10:42 PM

If you did all of that there would be no point in haveing a ea82 or ea81 just throw in a ej22 or ej25 or franken motor and call it good. ...

 

I Agree...

 

To buy a Subaru EJ22 Engine and retrofit it on an older EA engined Subaru, is Cheaper and has -almost- all the power and performance improvements that the Older gen of Subarus' owners want to gain, plus it is Reliable and doesn't need added stuff such like SuperChargers or Turbos to gain some good Hp over the EA82...

 

In my personal case, I'll keep the Good Ol' EA82 weberized and drive it 'till it becomes too worn to fix, but being at 300K miles is somehow at its middle of its life ...  :D ...

 

Kind Regards.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users